Thoughts on Snape from a non Snape Fan (uh-oh)

[prep0strus]

No: HPFGUIDX 175951


> Montavilla47:
> > But, when Dumbledore was willing to risk everything
> to save Draco--unpleasant, unimportant, son-of-the-
> guy-who-tried-to-get-him-fired Draco--then I 
> thought Dumbledore was truly magnificent.
>
> 

Prep0strus:
Thanks for not drawing and quartering me. :)  I'm with you on the
Draco thing, which is why Draco's treatment in DH bugs me more than
many other things.  I wanted some addressing of the fact that
Dumbledore and Snape 'saved his soul'.  I guess it's implied... but I
wanted Draco to earn what he had been given.  Perhaps even to undergo
the transformation we see in Dudley, who, it could be argued,
'deserved' it less.  Not based on legitimate anything - just on time
devoted to a character.  HBP was really the book of Snape and of
Draco.  You might think it was Dumbledore and Harry, but DD's story
was really in DH... and I just really thought Draco's arc would come
to a really interesting conclusion.

 > Montavilla47:
> So, what bugs me?  Partly, it's that I always imagined
> Dumbledore welcoming Snape back to the "right" side
> with an extended hand--like the hand of God in the
> Michaelangelo painting.  Now I know that it was with
> wrath and a demand for payment.

Prep0strus:
What you said about DD & Snape... I don't disagree that it was harsh
treatment.  But we have seen that DD is not perfect, and also was
working hard at a cause that Snape was in opposition to.  The disgust
line is after Snape admits he would offer up Harry for Lily - if he
didn't do it outright; he did it in his heart.  He offers no defense.
 But the next part...I would like to think, that in his way, DD was
offering Snape his soul akin to what he tried to do for Draco. 
Demanding payment?  No.  Do any of us think he would ignore members of
the order, ignore the possible object of the prophecy w/o Snape's
agreement? Doubtful. But by asking for payment, I think DD gets two
things - one selfish, one altruistic.  

Choose the balance of his reason for yourself.  But he gets a spy.  A
spy 'beholden' to him - at least in Snape's mind.  Snape is crazy with
fear and grief - and love.  To make this deal, I think Dumbledore can
trust him more if there is a kind of tit-for-tat.  Maybe he thinks it
is more how Slytherins operate - not expecting something for nothing.
 But I think it is a stronger tie to him.  The second reason - he is
saving Snape himself, saving his soul.  DD and Snape both know that he
can't ask snape to simply relinquish being a DE - it is a death
sentence.  And DD may even feel that that is not enough to save
Snape's soul - Draco is stopped from committing murder, but what sins
are on Snape's soul that he needs to atone for after being a death
eater?  Not the least of which putting the potter family in danger to
begin with (and the longbottoms).  By requesting 'payment', DD gives
Snape the chance to do good, under his supervision and somewhat under
his protection.  I think that offer was the pivotal moment of Snape's
life.  If love of Lily is his underlying motivation, Dumbledore's
harsh offer of a trade is the door Snape needed in order to turn his
life around.

> Montavilla47:
> But mostly, it's that line, "Sometimes I think we sort
> too early..."  Which says to me that Dumbledore 
> valued Snape to the extent that Snape emulated the
> qualities of Gryffindor, rather than for his value as
> a Slytherin.
>


Prep0strus:

And here we have another of the underlying issues that divides people,
that causes grumpiness, that itches like the Snape issue itself.  I
completely agree with your statement in that he's valuing Griffindor
not Slytherin.  And it bugs the heck out of me that I have to accept
this world that JKR has created, but... I am in the camp that does not
see anything to value in Slytherin.  There are characters that manage
to ever so slightly rise above the sludge that is Slytherin - but
never by focusing on their Slytherin characteristics.  It's hard
enough even to find Slytherin characteristics that are able to be
interpreted as worthwhile.  Pure of blood?  Pointless, and often not
true.  Clever? Ok, but why not Ravenclaw?  Ambition - surely portrayed
negatively when not accompanied by wokring towards a noble goal, the
forte of Griffindors.  Self-serving? Absolutely wonderful.


I am angry JKR didn't give me a good Slytherin.  I am angry she didn't
give me worthwhile Slytherin qualities.  I am angry her world didn't
grow to encompass the idea that all houses ARE equal, and perhaps the
house WAS tainted by Riddle, and could rise to true equality.  But
Salazar himself tainted the house, and the school.  Every Slytherin is
unlikeable in some way, and need to embrace their other qualities to
not be completely worthless - especially Griffindor, which continues
to still be 'better' than Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw.

I'm not happy with this world, but I believe that's how it's written.
And so, I won't criticize Dumbledore for saying what he said.  He's
giving Snape the highest compliment a JKR character can give another
character - you perhaps should have been chosen good instead of chosen
evil.  And perhaps even giving him an excuse why he turned out so bad
- you, too early, were put into an environment you couldn't succeed
in, when you deserved more.

It's unpleasant, but this is one of the unpleasant things I put on
JKR, not the character.  I said earlier I didn't blame Harry for still
thinking Slytherins were beneath him.  They simply are.  And by this
point in the series, i think we know that.  I don't think anyone can
have value 'as a Slytherin', because I don't think JKR has given
Slytherins any value.

Again, I'm sure some disagree.  I am fairly negative towards Slytherin
and Slytherins, but it's because of what I read in the books, not
because it's what I wanted the outcome to be.

~Adam (Prep0strus)