A Snape Timetable (Was: Dumbledore Disgusted)

[potioncat]

No: HPFGUIDX 175993

>From post 175976
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/175976

> Carol responds:
> 
snip
I like to think that Trelawney's
> interview took place on Halloween, as so many other events do in the
> series, especially since that would have been Harry's approximate
> conception date. However, it could have taken place any time between
> his conception and late spring, as the cold rainy night indicates.
> Either way, it did not take place during the normal hiring period
„« (July through August).


Potioncat:
I think it took place Sep/Oct 1979---which is a "sort of me too." I'm 
leaning more to more to your way of thinking that Harry was 
already "on the way" given the wording of the prophecy. Looking only 
at the weather, I think cold rainy nights are probably the norm in 
summer for the area of Scotland where Hogwarts is hidden. I'm also 
basing my time-frame on comments by Trelawney, but this is putting a 
emphasis on specificity that the author is generally incapable of.


> Carol:
IOW, he's almost certainly spying for LV at this time, not
> applying for a job. (Note the went-up-the-wrong-stairs excuse;
> obviously, he doesn't have an appointment of his own.) Nor does he
> apply the following year, apparently. He comes to DD for help some
> time between Harry's birth on July 30, 1980 (probably that winter,
> given the weather) and September 1, 1981, when he begins teaching
> Potions. He begins spying for DD "at great personal risk"  as the
„« result of his promise to do "anything" to get DD to save Lily. 

Potioncat:
I always thought Trelawney was correct, because she is so often 
wrong. But I've also decided that Snape was not looking for a job at 
that time. Whether he was there by design, or just got lucky, I 
cannot say. 


> Carol:
> I realize that DH muddies the waters still further with the Pensieve
> memories, with no clear indication of how close they are together 
(and
> it has never made sense that LV waited fifteen months to try to kill
> Harry, but let's say that he doesn't read the birth announcements in
> the Daily Prophet and it took him awhile to figure out who the two
> boys are and that he debated a while after that over which posed the
> greater threat instead of choosing to kill both of them and that he
> even considered waiting, like a logical person, to see which posed 
the
„« greater threat. But never mind all that. Back to Severus.)


Potioncat:
I still maintain that the portion of the prophecy Snape overheard 
could just as easily refer to an adult with a July birthday.  Or if 
you think like a HpfGU member, it could mean someone born in 
September. So LV may not have been looking for a child to be born in 
July.  But, it seems, at some point after July 80, LV decides it 
means the Potter child. (Or it could mean either of those 2 boys.) 

> Carol:
> Here's my approximate time frame for the events from the Prophecy to
> Godric's Hollow, part of a more fully developed Snape timetable:
snip
> 
> July 31, 1981: Harry's first birthday. Lily writes her letter. The
> Potters are hiding in Godric's Hollow, but unless PoA is wrong, they
> are not yet under the Fidelius Charm. Perhaps DD suggested it when 
he
> borrowed the IC. (Note that there seems to be another time 
discrepancy
> here. DD cannot have "borrowed" the IC a mere week before Godric's
> Hollow unless Lily is writing a very belated thank-you 
note.) "Wormy"
„« is contemplating treachery.

Potioncat:
When Harry reads the letter in DH, he thinks that it will be the last 
time Pettigrew sees Lily and James. Yet, there are several more 
months before LV shows up. I think this is another discrepancy. I 
think JKR loses touch with the details as she goes for drama. (To be 
fair, it would not have been unheard of for "me" to send my child's 
first July birthday photo out in October. In fact, I'm not sure I've 
sent them yet and he's 13.)

> Carol:
> Ca. August 1981: LV sends Snape to apply for the DADA post (nearly
> *two years* after Trelawney's job interview). DD, perhaps not yet
> fully trusting his young spy, gives him Potions instead. Snape 
begins
„« teaching on Sept. 1.

Potioncat:
I agree, except I think DD used that as an excuse not to give him 
DADA. I think he didn't give him DADA because of the curse.
> 
 
> Carol:
> On a side note related to this thread, I don't think that LV (who
> tells several lies in the last few chapters of DH) ever said 
anything
> to Snape about Lily *after* her death. I think that young Snape,
> sensing her danger, asked to be rewarded for revealing the Porphecy 
by
> having LV spare Lily, making it appear that he merely desired the
> attractive "Mudblood," and LV said something like, "Very well,
> Severus. You have served me well, and I will reward you if I can.
> However, should she resist me and her death become necessary, surely
„« you can find a more suitable pure-blood woman who is equally 
attractive."

Potioncat:
A very good point. It would also allow LV to approve of the "remorse 
over Lily" excuse that Snape says he used to convince DD, except, I'm 
not sure why LV would agree to tipping that detail to DD. That could 
have been a half-truth Snape used to Bella.
 
> Carol:
> Dumbledore's "you disgust me" seems out of character considering how
> polite he is to the DEs on the tower, who are there to make sure 
that
„« he's murdered. 

Potioncat:
That scene has the feeling of something begun in the middle. We are 
missing how and why Snape arranged to meet DD on the hill, or why 
exactly DD treated it as if he thought LV had arranged it. 


>Carol:
. (At this point, DD probably
> remembers Snape's exam scores and has some notion of his 
intelligence
> and talents but he has no idea of his capacity for loyalty and
„« courage.)

Potioncat:
Although the Prank seems to have changed in intensity since DH (and I 
don't really understand how it fits at all now) We do have Snape 
having kept his word about Lupin for several years, even though he is 
a DE. DD cannot be unmindful of that bit of loyalty or word-keeping.

 
> Carol, trying to fit the Pensieve memory and the canon from other
> books together and feeling that a few pieces are missing while 
others
„« are the wrong shape and have to be forced into place

Potioncat, who agrees with Carol's description and thinks it 
describes a lot of things in the series.

>