Voldemort/Re: Ending

[Renee]

No: HPFGUIDX 176193

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Bart Lidofsky <bartl at ...> wrote:
>

> Bart:
At one point, in HBP I believe, DD says that Morty is beyond hope.
Having, specifically with Morty in mind, done some reading on
psychopathy and sociopathy, it is clear that Morty WAS intended to be
a psychopath, albeit an unusually effective one (and that's even
considering the multiple "Let's see if AK works on Harry THIS time!"
attempts). This means that Morty has an illness which can be described
as lacking a connection to his own soul (which is why he has so little
difficulty making horcruxes).

Renee:
Does the term "soul" belong in a medical context? If not (and I don't
think it does), this is just another example of mixing up categories,
of working on two different levels. And it doesn't solve the problem
of choice, or the lack thereof in Tom Riddle's case. 

Bart:
So, even if the blood had an effect, there was pretty much no chance
that Harry's offer would have worked. But Harry's offer wasn't about
Morty; it was about HARRY. Morty is effectively reverted to a subhuman
state, no longer able to make choices. 

Renee:
The problem, of course, is the "no longer", as JKR fails to make clear
that he ever had a choice. Also, the "no longer able to make choices"
goes against JKR's statement in the interview that the drop of blood
did give him a choice. 

<snipping the part about what Harry can do and what actually happens,
because I don't think anyone is denying this>

Bart: 
> The point is not that Morty had any chance at changing. It's that
Harry GAVE him the chance that makes a difference. It's a very
Christian message, that even the very worst people have a chance to
repent and receive forgiveness for their sins, even if it rarely
happens. If even Morty has the chance, then the reader, who can
generally be considered to be a better person than Morty, has a
chance, too.

Renee:
But the whole point is that Voldemort has no chance. You just said he
was unable to make choices at that point, so aren't you contradicting
yourself here? Offering a chance to someone who, from a pathological
point of view, is unable to take it turns the Christian message of
forgiveness into an empty gesture. And on a literal level, I don't buy
JKR's explanation that he had a chance because he carried Harry's
blood inside him - though I do on a symbolical level.  

<snipping Buffy, because I'm unfamiliar with this series> 
> 
> >Technically Harry could walk away, that's part of the narrative.  I 
> >suppose Tom's choice was that with his smarts and Hogwarts education, 
> >he could have made a pretty good living as a criminal instead of 
> >seeking world domination and immortality!  
> 
> In a way, Tom's talent was his undoing. There was only one real
choice he had; he COULD have seen that there was something wrong with
himself, and tried to get it cured. 

Renee:
I'd like to see some canon evidence for what you're saying here. You
make a supposition about Tom having a real choice, but I simply don't
see it in the text, and not even JKR seems to think it's there.  

Bart: 
> Morty was a catalyst. The change came in Harry, able to resist
temptation when DD was not. 
> 

Renee:
Oh yes, I fully agree with that. But to me, that doesn't solve the
problem of writing a psychologically realistic character who fulfills
all the Real World criteria of psychopath, and then switching to
symbolical mode by having this character magically injected with a
drop of hope and love in order to make him accountable for his last
choice. This way, the origin of evil remains a Riddle and it won't do
to make statements about the status of Tom's soul in the afterlife. 

But then, Dante's habit of making statements about souls by putting
people in Hell has always been a pet peeve of mine. Just so you know
where I'm coming from.

Renee