Snape and Lily/ Neither Can Live/Snape Saves /The 'Taboo'/ Naming Offspring

Sun Aug 26 05:49:30 UTC 2007

No: HPFGUIDX 176261

Judy Serenity wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/175786>:

<< But, this raises the question again: If Voldemort wasn't willing to
spare Lily for Snape's sake, then why, when Voldemort showed up at
Godric's Hollow, did he give her a chance to "step aside"? Or, if
Voldemort did tell Snape that he would spare Lily, then why did Snape  
show up, desperate, frantic, begging Dumbledore to save her? >>

As I posted many years ago, LV told Snape that he was willing to leave
Lily alive as a gift for Snape but would kill her if she interfered
with him killing Harry, and LV was telling Snape the truth (which
seems Out of Character for LV). And Snape believed LV (which seems
stupid) but knew that Lily would never accept her life in exchange for
not defending her baby, so he turned to Dumbledore to please rescue
Lily (and her baggage).

Alla wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/175864>:

<< I wonder sometimes what If Voldemort indeed incapacitated Lily and
killed Harry and James only, did Snape seriously thought Lily would
become his? >>

Imperius. Love Potions. Confundus. Obliviation.

Zgirnius wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/175800>:

<< Dumbledore in the second meeting with Snape in "The Prince's Tale"
states that Snape, like the Potters, placed his trust in the wrong
person. I took that to mean Voldemort. >>

This goes along with Potioncat's question in the immediately preceding
post: << has anyone else noticed places in any of the books where JKR
seems to be winking at her fans or laughing at herself? >>

When DD told Snape that both Lily and Snape had placed their trust in
the wrong person, he meant Lily trusting a disloyal Secret Keeper and
Snape trusting LV. But the first time I read it, my instant thought
was 'they trusted Lily's life to the same wrong person: Dumbledore'. I
posted that on 7/22/07, but unfortunately not on this list.

Montavilla47 agreed in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/175898>:

<< This is a bit off-topic, but I find that quote very ironic. Because
yes, Snape had put his faith in the wrong person. Not Lord Voldemort
(who he obviously didn't have faith in, since he ran to Dumbledore
after Voldemort said he'd spare Lily), but in Dumbledore. 

He put his faith in Dumbledore to prevent the tragedy, and he agreed
to do "anything" in return. And Dumbledore let him down--and still
insisted on full payment. >>

That post was too good to be snipped.

Geoff quoted in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/175801>:

<< "Nobody," said Harry simply. "There are no more Horcruxes. It's
just you and me. Neither can live while the other survives and one of
us is about to leave for good..." >>

In that statement from Harry, "neither can live while the other
survives" means about the same as "This town ain't big enough for both
of us" in a Western. Did JKR and the power that spoke through
Trelawney put that phrase into the Prophecy just so Harry could say it
at the show-down? If it had additional meaning in the Prophecy, what
did it mean? Why wasn't it 'neither can die while the other survives'?

Carol wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/176047>:

<< In any case, he could not have saved her from an Avada Kedavra. His
specialty is healing (or slowing) Dark Curses >>

I don't think it makes a difference whether she was to be killed by
Avada Kedavra, a bullet, or a venomous bite from Nagini. He couldn't
save her without blowing his cover and the mission, as you said. If he
was willing to blow his cover and the mission, to save her right away, 
he couldn't have saved her from the bad guys' second try after they
responded to his first effort by outnumbering and killing him. But he
could have tried equally to pull her out of the way of the flying
curse, bullet, or snake head; tried equally to stun Voldemort before
he picked up his wand or gave the order.

Carol wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/176063>:

<< I was glad to see that the fear of Voldemort's name had a basis in
VW1 reality and that Ron was the one to explain the Taboo >>

It doesn't make sense to me that the Taboo (that should have been
named Trace) was in effect during VWI. In DH, the Order of Phoenix
people were easily found and killed or captured because they said
Voldemort's name. They were in the habit of saying Voldmort's name
because Dumbledore had encouraged them to. Surely DD was already
encouraging them to say Voldemort's name during VWI. Do you think DD
would have encouraged it if he knew about the Taboo? Do you think the
Order wouldn't have found out about the Taboo when they had spies and
infiltrators and DD's little silver gadgets?

montims wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/176102>:

<< when people in the real world have children, do they really name
them after somebody they know, or do they just pick their favourite
names??? >>

Here in USA, both things happen. Enough parents name their children
some name that they just happen to like that one can tell what decade
a woman was born in because her given name is Dakota (those aren't
'women' yet, still 'girls') or Brittany or Chelsea or Liza. The
fashion trends in boys' names are less strong, so that John, Michael,
and David are always in the top five.

I read someone on some list saying that Rose and Hugo are currently
popular names for babies in the UK.

But it is quite the common thing in US to name one's child after
someone. I was named Rita after my late grandmother Marguerite and my
brother was named Alan after my other grandmother Ellen. Quite a
number of men are Juniors or IIIs, meaning they were given the exact
same name as their father (and as their grandfather, for the IIIs).
Sometimes it is not exactly the same name, as for example Frank
Sinatra was named after his father but he was Franklin and his father
was Francis. It used to be somewhat common to name boys after the
reigning President, providing Woodrows during the Wilson presidency,
Calvins under Coolidge, Herberts under Hoover, and Franklins under
Roosevelt. 

Sali wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/176112>:

<< On a tangent, we hear Albus' middle name but not that of James and
Lily. Assuming that Harry continues his propensity for naming his
children after dead loved/respected ones, I'm coming up with James
Sirius (which I think is an infelicitous combination) but am drawing a
blank for Lily. >>

Surely little James's middle name is Harry and little Lily's middle
name is Ginevra. Rowling appears to live in a universe where the first
born child of each sex has the name of the parent of that sex for
middle name. For example, Hero Harry's middle name is James, Bill
Weasley's middle name is Arthur, and Ginny's middle name is Molly.

Jen wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/176114>:

<< Thinking each one secretly influenced the naming of a child after
an old crush fits with the way they tend to operate with each other.>>

It was a cute fan-theory but, if true, it sounds like a symptom of a
horrible marriage. If each one wants to name their child after their
old flame for no reason other than the person having been an old
flame, and each one wants to keep this secret from the other, of
course the desire for secrecy is fear that the spouse will be jealous,
and that fear of jealousy seems to me that indicate that the spouse
has real reason to be jealous, i.e. that each spouse secretly would
rather be married or having an affair with his/her old flame.