The Fundamental Message.../ Heroes...

[rowena_grunnionffitch]

No: HPFGUIDX 176452

> Betsy Hp:
> Harry's little cheer-leading squad glorifies his marching off to 
> die.  Dumbledore's little speech in the next chapter glorifies 
> Harry's willingness to march off to die.  That topped with the fact 
> that Harry *never* figured this stuff out for himself but needed to 
> be spoon-fed by Dumbledore, means I see this as a glorified look at 
> suicide.
> 
> I mean, this isn't what JKR meant to write, I grant you.  But it's 
> how I put it all together.

  Rowena: I see where you're coming from but that's NOT how I put it 
together at all, nor as you admit is it what JKR intended to convey. 
Clearly this is a very debatably point.

> Betsy Hp:
> Yup.  That's what I'm saying. <g>  Frankly, the WW is so twisted it 
> might have done them some good to suffer under Voldemort until they 
> pulled their collective heads out of their asses.  It's a horrible, 
> brutal, bigoted world.  Harry and his friends are on the top of the 
> heap, but I find it hard feeling all warm and fuzzy for them 
> because they won.  As usual.

  Rowena: No more bigoted or horrible than our world IMO. And how 
much of the 'twisting' is due to Voldemort's influence? According to
no less an authority than Dobby treatment of House Elves *improved* 
after Voldemort's defeat, hence his devotion to Harry. It therefore 
seems safe to assume that similar improvement will occur after his 
final death.

  Betsy Hp:
> (Um, and *please* note I was just hoping for post-WWII success, not 
a utopia.  That "perfect world" straw man that keeps getting propped 
up is getting a tiny bit old, IMO.  This isn't directed to anyone in 
> particular -- I've just seen it put forth a lot.)

  Rowena: We really don't see enough of the post-Voldy world to know 
that no improvements have been made. 
 
> Betsy Hp:
> Yes, but Dumbledore *did* shirk his duties there.  He ignored and 
> allowed to fall into ruin, an entire quarter of his school.  He 
also 
> had early warning of, and again ignored, the entrance of a very 
> disturbed little boy into the WW.  That he holed up in an office no 
> student had hopes of entering (even the one he claimed to love) 
> speaks to me less of a dedicated teacher and more of someone 
working 
> for July and August.
> 
> Though... ::sigh:: Slytherins are born bad, blah, blah, blah, 
> Dumbledore can't save the damned.  (That every argument has to end 
> this way makes the arguments not very fun at all, IMO.)

  Rowena: I agree, that's crap. Slytherins are not only not 'born 
bad' they aren't bad at all in essence. The House in Harry's time has 
been corrupted by Voldemort and his followers, nothing DD or Snape 
can do can change the fact that the House is dominated by the children
of DEs - in fact Snape *CAN'T* do anything about if he's to keep up 
his cover. Therefore I guess you can blame him and DD for putting the
speculative future final defeat of Voldemort above the immediate 
reformation of his former House if one feels so inclined - though I 
wonder how effective any such attempt would have be in the face of 
opposition from the likes of Lucius Malfoy (btw, originally I 
wrote 'Luscious' Malfoy! An interesting slip don't you agree? ;).

> Betsy Hp:
> I'd say it should look like members of each House working 
together.  
> See, I wasn't really looking for the impossible.  (Except of 
> course... ::sigh:: Slytherins are bad, can't save the damned, blah, 
> blah, blah.)

  Rowena: Again I don't think Slytherins are inherently bad and I do 
not believe that their founder was a Dark Wizard, (remember he was 
originally best friends with Gryffindor). Slytherin feared and 
distrusted Muggle-borns and given it was a time of Muggle persecution 
he may well have had some reason for feeling that way. IMO the 
Basilisk (sic?) was intended as a last ditch weapon to defend the 
school in case of Muggle attack. Unfortunately over the centuries his 
fear turned pure-blood bigotry - and I very much doubt Slytherins 
were the only wizards to so offend! 
  Thus the post WWII problem is not to 'reform' or disolve Slytherin 
but to restore it to the valued part of the school it was originally 
and always meant to be. However it is going to take some time for the 
distrust engendered by Voldemort's control of the House to die down 
entirely - I doubt 19 years would be enough. Even so Albus Severus's
concerns don't really indicate anything except the rivalry between 
Gryffindor and Slytherin is still going on and he's afraid of ending 
up on the 'wrong' side of it. Harry is trying to reassure him that 
Slytherin is not a 'wrong' side - at least that's how I read it.

   Everybody seems to be either forgetting or ignoring Nigellus's cry 
of 'And let it be noted that Slytherin House played its part! Let our 
contribution not be forgotten!" Personally I interpret this as JKR's 
attempt to make crystal clear that some Slytherins did indeed follow 
their head of house in the final battle as well as Snape's prominent 
role.
   
  Rowena Grunnion-Ffitch