The Fundamental Message.../ Heroes...

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 176450

> Betsy Hp:
> That's not true.  Crouch, Sr. was on the front lines, with his 
> Aurors.  Using curses only Harry is blessed enough to use properly, 
> true <eg> but fighting the good fight.  Crouch lost everything 
> trying to take on Voldemort.  But that wasn't quite good enough for 
> Dumbledore for some odd reason.  He needed his own private force.
> 
> And then Scrimgeour was out there *begging* for Harry to work with 
> him as he did his best to fight Voldemort.  Harry, following 
> Dumbledore's lead, refused to work with him and the Ministry fell.  
<snipped movie quote>
> Dumbledore was the very definition of a "gentleman amateur", IMO.  
> Which is why his success was so very WWI-like, IMO.
 
Jen: This MOM sounds *great*, not like the one that's a walking human-
rights violation when it comes to the justice system (Dementor 
guards?  Throwing prisoners in without trials? Innocents like Morfin 
Gaunt, Hokey and Stan Shunpike who don't get through investigative 
trials because of their status?)  And don't forget people like 
Umbridge passing through legislation undermining rights for 'half-
breeds.'  

Aren't you saying Dumbledore needed more principles, that his ideals 
sucked?  Here they are, Dumbledore stood up for valid reforms he 
believed needed to take place at the MOM in order to fully cooperate 
with them and the reforms never happened; in fact, things 
deteriorated over the 17+ years of the story.  The fight with Fudge 
in the "Parting of the Ways" and the course of OOTP was about the 
differences between DD and the MOM, and why he formed the Order in 
the first place.  There were some principled people who worked at the 
MOM and did some good, and people like Scrimgeour who was behind the 
curve before he started because he inherited the failures of Fudge's 
regime, but those who took advantage of their power and position 
flourished.  
 
Dumbledore had plenty of flaws, his secrecy and tendency to rely on 
himself the two biggest, and he was incapable of reforming the WW 
alone.  So few people bought into his agenda for reforms at the MOM 
or the rights of anyone who wasn't a wand-carrying human when the 
story opened.  Complacency was at the root of the first war being 
fought only by the MOM and the Order, at odds with each other over 
tactics and strategy.  By the end of the second war, groups from all 
over the WW were working together for a common purpose, the 
grassroots organizing rather than the sparring leaders - students, 
merchants, centaurs, teachers, house elves, MOM workers, Order 
members...

If Dumbledore did nothing else in your eyes, at least he got himself 
out of the way with his secrecy and planning so his vacuum could be 
filled with many people instead of one, eh? ;)  Three of his ideals 
came to fruition within the scope of the story in my opinion:  
Differences of habit and language were put aside when groups 
coalesced, the Dementors were gone from Azkaban, and Kingsley was 
appointed to the MOM.  I don't think his efforts were pointless even 
if his cause wasn't Slytherin house.