Sarah Monette(SPOILERS) and JKR WAS: Re: JKR's Opinion

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 179917

> >>Betsy Hp:
> I agree. That's why I used the above examples as they are of works I
> enjoyed. I think Monette's a brilliant writer, tackling issues JKR
> wishes she had the strength to take on, and creating characters with
> a depth of soul that make Harry so much cardboard. And I think a big
> reason for that is Monette's willingness to allow for organic
> growth. But *also* Monette's willingness to rewrite and rewrite and
> rewrite. So there's the combination of subconscious and conscious
> there.

> >>Alla:
> So, as Betsy knows I am in love with Sarah Monette works as well. I 
> do think that she is a brilliant writer, but having read three     
> books of hers I do have to take a rather strong exception to her 
> characters' organic growth.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I wasn't thinking specifically of characters (though I do think 
Monette's characters are more real than JKR's).  I was talking about 
the organic unfolding of the story.  Letting the story move along the 
route it *wants* to go, even if it's not exactly what the author had 
first planned.

***MAJOR MONETTE SPOILERS TO FOLLOW***

> >>Alla:
> Okay, series start and I see Mildmay as an assassin for hire, who   
> wants to get out of it, but who has no problems IMO to kill when it 
> is needed to solve his problems.

Betsy Hp:
Well, no.  Mildmay has *already* gotten out of being a killer for 
hire at the opening of the series.  He faces a poverty that nearly 
kills him rather than going back to that life.  Yes, he has no 
physical problems killing in that he's well trained and it comes 
easily.  But psychologically?  It's not easy, and even a death caused 
in self-defense bothers the crap out of him.  (Goodness, even a death 
caused by a *storm* bothers the heck out of him.  Mildmay isn't very 
cool with people dying around him.  Even the ones he dislikes.)

> >>Alla:
> Felix is.... Well, Felix is half crazy most of the book, so I guess 
> we cannot evaluate much of his character.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
To my mind, we had to meet Felix when he was cracked open.  Otherwise 
we'd have never gotten a clear glimpse of his true character because 
his shields are so darn thick.  And also sharp.

> >>Alla:
> <big snip>
> I am sorry Betsy, I see **no growth whatsoever** in Felix character 
> so far. 
> Mildmay, well, I think it is way past due for him to realize that 
> his brother is not going to treat him decently, IMO. So I am not 
> sure I see any growth in that department either.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I do see growth in both men.  Felix acknowledges and even befriends 
Vincent, for example.  Mildmay says no (which is actually, huge for 
him) but at the same time finally accepts the bond.

> >>Alla:
> Um, yes back to Potterverse finally. I see growth in Harry, I 
> definitely do. I see him being able to see grayness in the world   
> and people - that he was able to forgive Snape of all people, that 
> he was able to forgive Dumbledore of all people IMO. I see growth   
> in Harry that he was shielding everybody including Narcissa when he 
> came back.

Betsy Hp:
And to me it's all same old, same old.  Harry does his saving people 
thing, and he's cool with those who are cool with him.  I didn't see 
much gray in the books, so I don't see much gray in Harry or in his 
world-view.

> >>Alla:
> I see it as rather organic growth...

Betsy Hp:
Ah, yes, I totally disagree with that. Hermione's house-elf thing is 
an example.  It was JKR's something unexpected and it led nowhere.  
Where as Monette's something unexpected (the scene with the lost city 
of Nera) not only led us somewhere, it furthered the story, both 
character-wise and plot-wise.

> >>Alla:
> ...but what is most important to me is that I would much rather    
> **hang out** with Harry than Monette's characters.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Boy am I the opposite! <bg>  Harry, Hermione and yes, even Ron, would 
bore me to tears.  And also be really, really annoying.  Whereas, I 
think I could hang with Mildmay all day long swapping stories and 
just, being.  And even Felix, who I think I'd find exhausting, would 
be interesting and highly entertaining.

> >>Alla:
> <snip>
> Harry does not kill, even when Lupin scolds him.

Betsy Hp:
As Mildmay would say, them's weasel words. <g>  Harry does what he 
thinks he has to do.  He's just incredibly, amazingly, sheltered 
compared to either Mildmay or Felix.  Harry had options neither 
Mildmay nor Felix had.  And in the end, dead is dead, and Voldemort 
is dead because of actions Harry took.

But what it mainly comes down to is that I don't see Harry as a real 
boy.  Mildmay and Felix seem far more real, to me.

> >>Alla:
> <snip>
> Having said that, I think to compare those books is to compare     
> apple and oranges. I did not notice any fairy tales origins in      
> Monette's story and I think JKR's story has a lot.

Betsy Hp:
Hee!
www.pantheon.org/areas/folklore/folktales/articles/melusine.html

Though, yeah, I'd say JKR puts a lot more obvious mythical creatures 
in her world than Monette does.  I think Monette was going for a lot 
more realism.  And that's where I'd agree with the apples and oranges.

Betsy Hp