Sarah Monette(SPOILERS) and JKR WAS: Re: JKR's Opinion

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 179918

Betsy Hp:
<SNIP>
I wasn't thinking specifically of characters (though I do think
Monette's characters are more real than JKR's). I was talking about
the organic unfolding of the story. Letting the story move along the
route it *wants* to go, even if it's not exactly what the author had
first planned.

***MAJOR MONETTE SPOILERS TO FOLLOW***


Alla:

Ah, okay. I was primarily responding to the characters' growth, but 
I guess I wonder how do you know that JKR did not let the story go 
where it wanted to? 

I mean JKR was saying that she followed the outlines, but do we know 
how closely? We do know for example that she wanted to kill Arthur 
and could not, etc.

Do you seriously believe that Monette is writing a story with no 
outlines in mind? Or do you mean something totally different?


Betsy Hp:
Well, no. Mildmay has *already* gotten out of being a killer for
hire at the opening of the series. <SNIP>

Alla:

Sorry, yes he did, but then he became a killer when his brother 
needs him to be IMO. Yes, he is uncomfortable, I agree, but not just 
so uncomfortable IMO as not to kill when it helps them to get out of 
trouble. 

>>Alla:
> Um, yes back to Potterverse finally. I see growth in Harry, I
> definitely do. I see him being able to see grayness in the world
> and people - that he was able to forgive Snape of all people, that
> he was able to forgive Dumbledore of all people IMO. I see growth
> in Harry that he was shielding everybody including Narcissa when he
> came back.

Betsy Hp:
And to me it's all same old, same old. Harry does his saving people
thing, and he's cool with those who are cool with him. I didn't see
much gray in the books, so I don't see much gray in Harry or in his
world-view.


Alla:

Same old? Harry hates Snape initially and then Harry forgives Snape. 
I guess, it is very far from being same old for me. Snape hates 
Harry till very end and Harry still forgives him. Cool with those 
who are cool with him?


>>Alla:
> ...but what is most important to me is that I would much rather
> **hang out** with Harry than Monette's characters.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Boy am I the opposite! <bg> Harry, Hermione and yes, even Ron, would
bore me to tears. And also be really, really annoying. Whereas, I
think I could hang with Mildmay all day long swapping stories and
just, being. And even Felix, who I think I'd find exhausting, would
be interesting and highly entertaining.


Alla:

I find Harry and Ron to be very endearing despite all 
their "sometimes" stupidity, recklessness, arrogance, etc. I find 
Hermione to be extremely bossy and would probably want to slap her 
silly if she wants to start bossing me around. BUT I would totally 
know that those three would watch my back no matter what, no matter 
what it would cost them. If they were my friends, I would know that 
I could rely on them. And of course I would not want to be their 
enemies.

With the heroes of Sarah Monette, well I would be scared that they 
would kill me. Mildmay – if Felix wishes him to and Felix, well, I 
do not know, just because.


>>Alla:
> <snip>
> Harry does not kill, even when Lupin scolds him.

Betsy Hp:
As Mildmay would say, them's weasel words. <g> Harry does what he
thinks he has to do. He's just incredibly, amazingly, sheltered
compared to either Mildmay or Felix. Harry had options neither
Mildmay nor Felix had. And in the end, dead is dead, and Voldemort
is dead because of actions Harry took.


Alla:

Yes, you are right. Them's weasel words. And the words are, in fact 
facts are that Harry is not a killer and Mildmay and Felix are 
killers. Harry has an option to use Avada Kedavra on DE and he does 
not, Harry has an option to use AK on Voldemort and he does not. He 
is sheltered from what? You think he had less chance to die in those 
situations?

I respect the character who does not want to kill even when he can 
die because of that. I respect Harry for that very much. IMO of 
course.

The bottom line for me is that sympathetic as I am to Sarah 
Monette's characters, I do consider them to be quite psychos. Yes, 
yes, I know bad childhoods. I do not think Harry had a cool 
childhood either, although sure they had it harsher. I do not need 
the characters like this to change much to enjoy the book, in fact 
if book 4 ends up with characters exactly as they are now, I 
certainly would not call Monette a bad writer.

BUT having said that, if I start reading a book about  the character 
whom I consider to be bad, there better be a point when some change 
occur in this character – NOT because I need it to enjoy the 
writing, but because I need it to feel sympathy for the characters. 
At the end of book 3 Felix  STILL IMO abuses Mildmay, who is 
reaching out to him. I am almost at my breaking point of feeling 
sympathy for those guys. If they do the same crap all over again in 
book 4 I will hate them both. Book 2 gave me hope that they will 
change. OOPS.

It reminds me of situation with Snape in book 4. I was so hoping 
that he watching Harry, showing dark mark, means some change for the 
better as I see it. He still hated Harry in OOP and that is when my 
love/hate for this character turned into hate. I am very close to 
feeling same way about those two guys.


JMO,

Alla