Failed Friendships (was:Re:Draco, Narcissa and Harry)

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 179945

 
> Betsy Hp:
> Harry's talking about stunning people who are far up enough in the 
> air that the fall will kill them as well as AKs.  So this passage 
> actually proves my point: this battle between Harry and Voldemort has 
> nothing to do with a specific form of magic.

Pippin:
Why does 'dark magic' have to refer to a specific form of magic and
not to the purpose for which it is used? OOP is practically devoted
to establishing that the same spells are used for offense and defense,
and therefore Umbridge, in order to make sure that Dumbledore
can't raise an army of students against Fudge, has to ban the 
teaching of defensive spells. 
 
> 
> > >>Pippin:
> > Harry will find this statement hard to live up to. But he makes
> > it. And giving up the EW proves he means it, IMO. 
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> I don't think the Elder Wand proves anything.  Harry can stun or AK 
> with his regular wand. 

Pippin:
Yes, and if he does, there will be other wizards who can
stop him without having to master the Elder Wand first. 

> Betsy Hp:
> I totally agree.  So yes, Dumbledore is not your go-to-guy for an 
> example of a friendship between a Gryffindor and a Slytherin. <eg>

Pippin:
I'm really disturbed by this idea that friendships can only be between
equals.  The powerful can't be friends with the weak? And the very
weakest and the most powerful can't have any friends at all, can they.

How sad that would be! Although I suppose if you are beautiful
and happy and well-adjusted and yet, for some reason, haven't
got any friends, you can always console yourself that it's because
nobody is in your class. <veg>

> Betsy Hp:
> Yeah, no they weren't.  Lily never begged Snape for forgiveness.  And 
> their friendship started to unravel the moment they got sorted into 
> different houses.  It did not survive the seperation.

Pippin:
So why does Slughorn think that Harry has Lily's gift for potions? They
must have been working together for a while, if Snape shared his
secrets with her.  What their friendship didn't survive was Voldemort's 
gift for spreading enmity and discord. Or do you think it was Snape's 
idea to make calling people 'mudblood' popular and recruit gangs of 
teenagers to beat up muggleborns?


> Betsy Hp:
> But there's nothing said specifically about dark magic.  And since 
> dark magic is so ill defined within the series, I really need to see 
> a specific reference made or I cannot follow the link.

Pippin:
There is universal agreement that Voldemort is a dark wizard.
Harry gave a definitive statement distinguishing his kind of magic
from Voldemort's. When he defeated Voldemort,  Harry's definition 
was given weight by the fact that he was the one who succeeded 
where so many others had failed. 

> 
> Betsy Hp:
> All those times he doesn't feel any. <g>  Even as an innocent child 
> he has no remorse for those he's tortured.  (Seriously, JKR gave him 
> so many of the characteristics of a budding serial killer.  I'd been 
> expecting to meet a little boy who was about to be led wrong. Instead 
> we met a child who just *was* wrong.  And about to enter a world 
> least equipped to handle him.)

Pippin:
Yet Dumbledore, who is after all not the innocent old man Harry
thought  he was, is sure that the power of love can alter Riddle,
make him into something different. Riddle, being a wizard, has
other ways to perceive love besides feeling it. He knows it exists.

Riddle tells Dumbledore that he has never seen anything to prove 
that love has such power as he says, but Diary!Riddle acknowledges 
Lily's sacrifice  would be strong enough to save Harry from death.

Yet even after Harry survives, Riddle continues to
reject love. In the WW that's a choice, not bad brain chemistry.

> 
> > >>Pippin:
> > > This book is about Harry learning that there needs to be a       
> > > change, that fighting evil isn't just a matter of getting rid of 
> > > the psychos/dark wizards.
> > > <snip>
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> So in DH Harry makes Kreacher into the perfect slave, and exploits 
> one of his fellow creatures.  His price is his happy little 
> afterwords.  Pretty grim. <g>
> 
Pippin:
Talk about leaps! If we had Neville's thoughts for that night, they
might have been about seeing Mum and maybe she'd give him a 
gum wrapper.  And would that prove that Rowling is advocating
insanity and Neville is now the poster child for catatonia? 
Puh-leeze!

Kreacher is old, he's been ill for a long time, he's very like
Neville's parents in that he'd be a danger to himself if he
was freed. Harry was keeping that 'trinket' as you call it,
because it had huge sentimental value to him as well. It
was a meaningful gift, just like the gum wrapper. 

Lockhart derives some satisfaction from signing his
autograph in joined up letters, and Gladys Gudgeon no doubt is
very happy to get them. Should she be prevented from doing so
because Lockhart can't be properly compensated?
 
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Harry became a very good slave owner, giving the poor dear little 
> trinkets and the like.  Let that be a lesson to you, kids!  If your 
> slave seems down, some baubles or beads along with a kind word will 
> do wonders and they'll be back in the kitchen, scrubbing your floors 
> in no time.  (Thanks, JKR!)

Pippin:
Er, really? JKR is addressing herself to kids who own slaves? 


> 
> Betsy Hp:
> 
> And then Dumbledore comes along at the end and says, oh no, Harry you 
> really *are* the better leader than Ron.  It was totally correct (and 
> clever!) of you to doubt his being made Prefect.  I only did it 
> because I just love you to bits and bits.

Pippin:
Another leap.
Dumbledore never says that Harry would have made a better
prefect than Ron. He never says that Harry would be a better leader.
He only says that Harry may have been wondering why he wasn't
made prefect and the reason was that Harry had enough burdens
already. Harry was, in other words, not kept from the job because
he wasn't qualified. That says nothing about whether Ron was as
qualified as he.

Betsy_Hp
> Example 2:  In DH Harry learns that Snape was on his side all along.  
> One would presume the lesson would be that Harry should no longer 
> decide if someone's on his side based on how well they like him.  But 
> that's undermined before it even gets off the ground by the 
> revelation that Snape really was a nasty, pathetic man, unhealthly 
> obsessed by Harry's mother, totally cognizant of his own nasty 
> pathetic-ness and so devoting his life to Harry's.  IOWs, Snape was 
> barely a man to begin with.  

Pippin:
I don't get this. The nastier and more pathetic Snape is, the stronger
the lesson that even a nasty pathetic person can be on your side.
The people Harry thought were nasty really were nasty. Harry's got a 
handle on nasty. The Dursleys made sure of that. What he didn't know 
was that nasty people could be worthy of honor, respect and positions
of power. He learned that. 


Pippin