Slytherins come back WAS: Re: My Most Annoying Character

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 180120

> Carol responds:
> 
> Let's look first at what she actually wrote:
> 
> ". . . Harry saw Charlie Weasley overtaking Horace Slughorn, who
> was still wearing his emerald pajamas. They seemed to have
> returned at the head of what looked like the families and friends 
> of every Hogwarts student who had remained to fight, along with
> the shopkeepers and homeowners of Hogsmeade" (DH 734).
>
> --<snipping and rearrainging Carol's post>--
>
> Phineas Nigellus' boast about Slytherin playing its part makes
> more sense if Slughorn did, indeed, lead at least a handful of
> older Slytherins into battle. No doubt that's what JKR *intended.*


> Alla:
> <snip>  but if you remember, some people DID assume 
> that Slughorn coming back means his students did too,
> they sort of followed where JKR wanted them to, no?

Mike:
:raising his hand: I was one of those, based on Phineas' comment, 
that assumed *some* Slytherins came back with Slughorn, after my 
first read through. I just assumed I missed it, or misremembered 
what was actually written.

But the actual words do not include any Slytherins besides Horace. 
That makes me agree with Magpie and lizzyben, it's not there.

I refuse to put stock in any JKR interview, they're not canon, imo.
I'm not going to be hypocritical and say, 'Obviously that's what JKR 
intended, based on her interview' even if that would match my WW 
view. What she intended and what she wrote are not the same.


> Carol:
> I agree that what JKR wrote and what she thinks she wrote are
> different, but what she did write is sufficiently vague that it
> does not preclude the idea of Slughorn leading the (older)
> Slytherins (or some of them) into battle, along with non-DE
> Slytherin parents. Unfortunately, she didn't clearly transmit
> that intention to the reader.

Mike:
On such an important point as this, I can't give JKR the benefit 
of the doubt. If she meant to **finally** show us that there really 
were some *good* Slytherins, she had to write it plainly and clearly.
She didn't! After 4,076 pages (US editions) of showing us that 
Slytherins are bad people, I refuse to assume what she may or may 
not have wanted me to assume. To deny the Slytherin personae put 
forth in those previous four thousand plus pages is completely 
unrealistic, imo.


> Carol: 
> We are, of course, seeing from Harry's perspective, and the words
> "what looked like" indicate that he's interpreting the scene. 
> It makes no sense that Slughorn would have brought the parents 
> of the students who remained at Hogwarts to fight. Much more 
> likely that he'd have brought the parents of the students he 
> accompanied to the Hog's Head. And the students most likely to 
> follow him into battle are the students of his own House.

Mike:
I'm with you in spirit, Carol, but there's a problem. It said 
Slughorn was "at the head" in a way that could be easily interpreted 
to mean that Slughorn was simply in front. He doesn't have to 
necessarily be "leading" anyone. He might have been the one that 
broke through some charm or barrier and that was why he was 
initially in front.


Mike,
asking lizzyben what "ret-coning" means?