Slytherins come back WAS: Re: My Most Annoying Character

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 180123

Alla:
> <snip> but if you remember, some people DID assume
> that Slughorn coming back means his students did too,
> they sort of followed where JKR wanted them to, no?

Mike:
<SNIP>
:raising his hand: I was one of those, based on Phineas' comment,
that assumed *some* Slytherins came back with Slughorn, after my
first read through. I just assumed I missed it, or misremembered
what was actually written.

But the actual words do not include any Slytherins besides Horace.
That makes me agree with Magpie and lizzyben, it's not there.

I refuse to put stock in any JKR interview, they're not canon, imo.
I'm not going to be hypocritical and say, 'Obviously that's what JKR
intended, based on her interview' even if that would match my WW
view. What she intended and what she wrote are not the same.


Alla:

Oh, very good one of those readers, hehe. But you said that you only 
assumed it after your first read? Meaning that when you reread and 
did not find the explicit words there you changed your mind?

If I understood you correctly, this is not quite what I am talking 
about.  I am talking about reader who read what JKR wrote as vague 
enough ( what Carol said) to fill in the blanks that way.

I mean, there are plenty of places in canon where I fill in the 
blanks as I see fit. Sometimes it is in line with JKR's intent, 
sometimes probably not. But I think that as long as some reasons for 
filling in the blanks are in the text are there, it is totally 
reasonable.

For example, despite the fact that I totally did not predict the 
extent of DD puppet master, I always considered some of his actions 
to be in line with it, I just I guess tried to excuse his general 
character more than I should have been ( NOT for killings that he 
supposedly committed, I am talking only about his manipulativeness 
here).

In book 1, I always assumed that Dumbledore wanted to test Harry and 
forced the stone test upon him. I based this assumption on Harry's 
speech of Dumbledore's giving him a chance to face Voldemort, etc.

But you know, with this assumption come questions of such variety as 
how Dumbledore knew when it is going to happen, how he knew to leave 
the school, to come back, etc. I just filled in the blanks the way I 
saw fit. I think he arranged all that somehow. It is not written in 
canon, but I think it is perfectly reasonable to fill in the blanks 
that way, if you believe what Harry says in that little speech.

Another thing – how Dumbledore knew what occurred in GH? I filled in 
the blanks at some point that Snape told him all about it, but when 
it was disproved, I absolutely thought that there was some kind of 
spell on the house to let him know. I assumed it at least couple 
months before JKR said so and would have think that way whether she 
would say it or not.

I think the same way about Slytherins coming back. It does not 
change my view all that much or none at all whether they come back 
or not, but like for example when we see Mcgonagall on the Quidditch 
pitch, we sort of assume that Gryffindor house is there watching, I 
do not see a need for JKR to explicitly mention it whether she does 
or not.

But you will tell me that the issue of Slytherins coming back is 
much more important than watching Quidditch. I will tell you no, I 
do not think so that it is so very important for JKR – only for part 
of fandom IMO. I mean important in a sense that people argued unless 
Slytherins are redeemed, series are a failure.


I mean, I happen to think that the issue of whether Dumbledore 
killed anybody ( not contributed mind you, but killed) is of much 
more importance then whether some of Slughorn's students are back 
and it seems to be fine and in line with the books to just assume 
that he did, but when head of the house comes back with the crowd, 
where every single person is not named, it is not Ok to fill in the 
blanks that just maybe some of them are his students?

It is just strange to me. IMO of course.

Mike:
On such an important point as this, I can't give JKR the benefit
of the doubt. If she meant to **finally** show us that there really
were some *good* Slytherins, she had to write it plainly and clearly.
She didn't! After 4,076 pages (US editions) of showing us that
Slytherins are bad people, I refuse to assume what she may or may
not have wanted me to assume. To deny the Slytherin personae put
forth in those previous four thousand plus pages is completely
unrealistic, imo.

Alla:

Same question – IS it such an important issue that it cannot be left 
to the readers to fill in the blanks? I think the issue of Harry 
winning the fight, speaking with Dumbledore, deciding what to do 
next – was of utmost importance and needed to be spell out, but this 
one? Why?

I mean, it is not like she is saying that Slytherins become 
wonderful people now and Pansy Parkinson did not attempt to commit 
the ultimate betrayal. It is not like Slytherin house stopped having 
their poisonous ideology. It is all still there. All that she is 
saying in essence is the same thing that she said before – they are 
not all bad. Um, in GoF even Harry sees few Slytherins that stand up 
for Cedric. I think it gives a rather big hint that they are not all 
bad. It is also IMO not like Harry would have been oh so very 
surprised had he specifically told us that some Slytherin students 
came back with Horace. I have not noticed him being very shocked 
when he sees Slughorn. It is also not like it is a big shock for him 
that Slytherin can be anti Voldemort – witness Regulus. It is just a 
matter of whether few students come back, the ones who are over the 
age.

JKR showed me that Slytherins are not all bad people regardless of 
whether she wrote the words that some students come back with 
Slughorn. I see no problems filling in the blanks that some of them 
did.

JMO,

Alla