Callous celebrations

[Bex]

No: HPFGUIDX 164420

I'll bite!
Carol:
> On Thursday, February 1, 2007, at 04:12 am, justcarol67 wrote:
> 
> > In fact, the celebrations always seemed to me to be
> > callous if not cold-hearted. A popular young witch and wizard have
> > just died, and people are shooting off the WW equivalent of 
> > fireworks?

Jocelyn:
> At the end of each World War there was dancing in the streets, and 
> presumably more localised conflicts have the same reaction to the 
> overthrow of tyrants, death of claimants to the throne etc...
> 
> Only those who have lost someone in the immediate past would not be 
> celebrating.  I think that is reasonable.  For most of the wizarding 
> world, freedom from fear has come at last!  No more dark marks in 
> the sky.  No more waiting for the door to be blasted in in the 
> night.  Of course they celebrate!
> 
> Many have died by this point, not just the Potters.  The Potters are 
> expected to be the last to die - and THAT is cause for rejoicing. 
> (At least it is unless you personally knew and loved the Potters.)


Blitz now:
Let's add some fat to the fire!
I was arguing both points to myself and I just had to go online one
moe time tonight and argue a bit.

Jocelyn, do you know the name of the last soldier killed in WWII? What
about the last person from WWI? I'm guessing not. However, notice in
the first book that a /lot/ of people seem to know the Potters by name.

Now I will concede that the WW is a small community. And Godric's
Hollow could be a suburb right near London; we don't know. But in the
streets, pople are saying "The Potters, Lily and James... and their
son, Harry." I find that interesting. Potter is a relatively common
name in Britian, yes? Not one that would stick in your mind if someone
mentioned to you a few nmonths ago, "Oh I met the cutest couple, Lily
and James Potter on the train today." 


And granted the Daily Prophet people can jump on a story quick;ly -
they're all over Ron and Harry's flying car incident by the time they
get to Hogwarts. But they wouldn't want to report the news that
quickly, with so many unanswered questions, namely, what stopped LV.
So I don't think people are getting all their information from a
newspaper.

These people know the Potters well enough to know their names, and
their toddler son.

Or do they?

Vernon Dursley hears these comments. He doesn't notice the speaker.
Was this at the same time as the bump into Flitwick? (I don't have my
books, but I think it may have been.) JKR didn't note the the voices
talking about the Potters were squeaky. So we can probably assume that
this is a random stranger, and not someone who knew the Potters
personally. (Flitwick, obviously, would have known them and quite
possibly even their son's name.)

So a random stranger knows Lily and James Potter, and their son,
Harry. In the middle of London. I see that as fishy. I think that the
Potters may have been at least somewhat famous *before* the attack on
Godric's Hollow. Something to make the Potter name relatively well
known - minor celebrity status, possibly. (No idea what, though James
campaigning against LV, or Lily becoming a very accredited Potioneer
come to mind first - I like the Lily one - give Snape another reason
to not stand him.)

Would you celebrate if, say, Johnny Depp died a tragic death that was
to be the last attack by the Taliban (say the building collapsed on
all of them when they were destroying it). What if Frodo's uncle died
while helping Frodo bring down Sauron? (Imagine him going along and
Gollum pulling him into the pit with him.) Would the entire hobbit
race be celebrating? Not even a flag at half mast? Nothing? How about
a member of the Rockefeller family dying in the end of an Evil
Overlord's reign? Or Obi-Wan Kenobi dying and taking Darth adfer with
him? I would expect, especially in a relatively small WW, that there
would be some sort of observance. So I'm with Carol here.

But then:
You are right - there are major celebrations after the end of a war,
and those who know the victims personally celebrate a bit
hollow-heartedly for obvious reasons. And Carol mentioned that Sirius'
reaction was more accurate and less unfeeling (I use it for lack of a
better word) that the rest of the WW. Which I agree - because he was
their closest friend. /And/ he knew what really happened. /And/ Black
isn't the most look-before-you-leap kind of guy - he acts rashly.

I think that if the Potters are a bit famous, then yes, the
celebrations are a bit callous. But surely more than just their old
teachers and their best friends cared about the Potters?


And finally:
This is one point that I disagree with JKR on. (Not that I've ever had
the chance to discuss it with her, but anyway.) She claims that the
first book is a very dark book (when someone mentions how each book
takes a darker tone than the last) - it starts out with a double
murder, and a boy being orphaned.

I say this: I never felt that PS was a dark book - and I have to
reread the graveyard scene in GoF to even get a hint that it was.
James and Lily are just faceless names in PS, and the readers doesn't
feel anything except a bit of mystery about it. until I see those two
characters more fully fleshed out, I'll feel worse about Sirisu
getting thrown in Azkaban without a trial than Lily and James dying.

So really, as a reader putting myself in with Wizarding community as
one of them, I would be with Jocelyn on this one, full on. As a
straight reader, not reading between the lines, I still agree with
you. But as a HP Sleuth (and a nitpicker who is in line to become a
Continuity Eagle with the medium-that-must-not-be-named), I have to
say that I think Carol is more on target with this one. There should
be a bit of mourning, if they are *that* well known.

~blitz
for what it's worth, it ain't worth much!