[HPforGrownups] Dursleys or Death (was:Re: Christian Forgiveness and Snape...

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 164487

> bboyminn:
>
> Perhaps my statement came across as more absolute than
> I intended. In a sense, I agree with you; Harry is who
> he is 'inspite of his life at the Dursleys' rather than
> because of it. That is, morally, Harry towers over the
> Dursleys, who for all their implied propriety, are sad
> sad miserable people.
>
> But I do believe buried in the misery of life at the
> Durley's, It is impossible for Harry to NOT learn
> valuable lessons from them. That experience has made
> Harry a better person than he might have been because
> Harry has a rational mind that can see through the
> clutter of class, implied status, and false prestige.

Magpie:
But I think this is very kind of romanticized cause and effect some of us 
have a problem with (or at least that's my impression, I could be wrong 
about others). Living with the Dursleys really doesn't seem like a lesson 
that leads to Harry learning that material things aren't important or the 
meaning of true friendship.

I also don't see Harry's problems with Draco as being and liking Ron as a 
big sign of how well his upbringing has served him. Draco's just not as much 
of a test as you're making him out. Harry hates Draco from the first time he 
suggests that he, like Dudley, is able to tyranize his parents' affections. 
He talks about outsiders and those that don't belong, and Harry 
automatically identifies with outsiders because he's always been one--and I 
can imagine him having the exact same reaction had he been raised by spoiled 
James, because that sort of thing just isn't liked by any of our main 
characters. There's just never a question of making any sort of close call 
about Draco for anybody or seeing the difference between Friend and 
friendly. Draco's not that smooth. Harry can't stand him. He never wants him 
as a friend. Draco's a shadow character from the first time he opens his 
mouth and might very well have been even if Harry had grown up with James 
(the guy who managed to make the same judgment about future DE Snape while 
growing up spoiled). Hermione makes the same judgments and also stands up 
for Neville.

I can't connect that to the Dursleys as if this is the logical result of 
that in any significant way. What kid who reads the book doesn't get Draco 
is the snob Harry shouldn't like right off?  Who needs ten years of that 
kind of treatment to identify these elements of Draco? In fact, why even 
make it that great of a thing--if Harry had grown up like Hermione perhaps 
he, like her, would dislike Draco in a more controlled way.

So no, I just can't see the Dursleys as building Harry's reactions, nor do I 
see Harry's reactions as all that unusual. He's not, imo, passing subtle 
tests on these issues. They're not difficult and they're never presented as 
temptations. I doubt JKR would even be able to write them as temptations, 
they're so obviously repulsive to her. Harry from almost any alternative 
time line would have formed the same alliances. I think that's clear from 
looking at how Slytherin is presented--they're like a house of gargoyles 
separate from others. The challenge for our "good" characters, be they Harry 
(unwanted orphan), Ron (youngest son in a big loving family), James (spoiled 
rich boy) or Sirius (arrogant son of Purebloods) is, imo, to reconcile with 
that which they naturally reject, not be tested by the temptation of evil.

-m