[HPforGrownups] And in the end...SS/PS

[SnapesSlytherin at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 164671

Celia wrote:
     "Don' you worry Harry…Everyone starts at the beginning at 
 Hogwart's…" (US Ed. pg.86)
 
 1. "Sent owls off ter all yer parents' old school friends," 
 (pg. 304) says Hagrid, as he gives Harry the photo album at the end 
 of the book. This seems to be a reference to a number of old friends 
 that Hagrid has easy access to. Do we know any of these old friends 
 (aside from Lupin, the only one we know for sure)? Is this the 
 Order, or are there further relationships between characters we know 
 and the Potters that will be revealed in DH? (assuming JKR is 
 truthful that no new major characters are to come.) Will Harry's 
 ability to pull people together also include his parents' friends? 
  
  Oryomai: I always found that odd. People commonly refer to Lupin as one of the last links Harry has to his parents, yet apparently there are people up and walking who even had photos. Why have none of these people attempted to contact Harry? I would think that he would at least get a few owls saying how happy they are that Harry is at Hogwarts or something like that! 
   Celia:
 2. Hagrid is the Keeper of the Keys (pg. 48). Although this has 
 been discussed ad nauseum in the past, I still believe that in this 
 title lies the fact that Hagrid is a "key" to the ending of the 
 books and the defeat of Voldemort. How, you ask? Hmm…a piece of 
 information he has, something he witnessed, something from Tom's 
 Hogwart's years that he knows, something about Snape? What do you 
 think? 
  Oryomai: I used to think it was more of a janitorial position, but then I remembered Filch. He already was the key to bringing Harry back to Hogwarts, thus ensuring that everything Harry's done actually happened. Since Hagrid never left Hogwarts, he would have been around while our dear friend Tom was asking Slughorn about the Horcruxes. Maybe Hagrid knows what one of the Horcruxes is! He doesn't consciously know that it is a Horcrux, but maybe he remembers seeing Tom take/hide something. 
   Celia:
 3. "Dunno if he had enough human left in him to die." (Hagrid, 
 pg. 57) Hmm, awfully close to horcruxes during the very first 
 discussion of Voldy! This statement is so close to what we finally 
 learn to be true 6 books later, I wonder…is this just the writing of 
 a woman who was unsure any more books in the series would be 
 published? Or does Hagrid know more than he lets on? Or is it common 
 knowledge that VM is less than human or changed? Seems like a very 
 accurate statement from Hagrid at this point. I'm keeping my eye on 
 Hagrid. 
  Oryomai: I don't know if Hagrid knows anything...I never put that much stock in him until the recent discussions about his reaction to Severus "killing" DD. I don't think anyone knew LV had changed, since very few knew that he was Tom. If Hagrid knew that Tom was LV, he would've mentioned it by now (he's not so good at the secret thing). I think that it was just Hagrid saying how truly evil LV was. He had done so many terrible things that he was not even considered human anymore. 
 Celia:
  4. "There's not a single witch or wizard who went bad who 
 wasn't in Slytherin." (pg. 80) The alienation of the Slytherin crowd 
 is a huge theme, started here in SS/PS, which I believe will hold a 
 key to the resolution of the series as well. As someone (sorry I 
 forget who) said recently, this statement is both extremely biased 
 (poor Harry never stands a chance of thinking fairly about the 
 Slytherins- he didn't even make it through his first wizardish day 
 without being told that Slytherins are no good) it is also just 
 untrue (Peter Pettigrew, anyone? And at the time, everyone thought 
 Sirius was a bad as they come- oops, sorry, wrong book, getting 
 ahead of myself). How do all of our "good" characters get to justify 
 this bias? How does JKR? How does this bias self-perpetuate, as in 
 Draco's desire to be in Slytherin? What will break this down (as I 
 believe it must be broken in the end)? 
  Oryomai: It's a sweeping generalization. "All" the witches and wizards in Slytherins are bad just as "all" the atheists want to get rid of every religious reference in the world (I'm an atheist, so I felt okay picking on myself for an example!) That's another reason why I think Severus has to be good(ish) in the end. She does so well with breaking all these prejudices, and we haven't had a good Slytherin yet. Draco's desire to be in Slytherin stem (IMO) from his family. He sees how well his family has done, and he credits being a Slyth to alot of that. I think that he has a Slytherin pride the same way that the Weasleys have a Gryffindor pride. As for DD, I've said it before and I'll say it again: the Leaving Feast of Harry's first year really set a standard. DD showed his total and complete favoring of the Gryffindors, and totally shot down Slytherin. This leaves everyone who was in Slytherin with the hatred of the Gryffindors for this, and it makes them think that DD favors Gryffindors over them. They pass this down to the new first years, until the Slytherins become what we see them as: a group of people who are bound together because they think everyone else is against them. 
  
   Celia:
 6. Is Quidditch included in the book just for fun, house 
 rivalry, and reader interest? Is there anything about Quidditch in 
 this first book in particular that adds to the overall mystery and 
 fight with VM? Oh, Quidditch… 
  Oryomai: I always thought that Quidditch was in the books because it's Harry's one chance to have something normal in his life. He's the Boy Who Lived, he's been continually fighting LV and his followers since the age of 11, but he can play a sport and have fun just like all his classmates. 
   Celia:
 7. Alright, a lovely Snape moment that becomes more beautiful 
 with our wizened HBP eyes: " Snape and Filch were inside, alone. 
 Snape was holding his robe above his knees. One of his legs was 
 bloody and mangled…Harry tried to shut the door quietly, but—
 "POTTER!" Snape's face was twisted with fury as he dropped his robes 
 quickly to hide his leg….the expression on Snape's face when Harry 
 had seen his leg wasn't easy to forget." (pgs. 182-183) The 
 parallels with the "levicorpus" incident in the pensieve are just 
 glaring to me in this scene (sensitive about his legs, our Severus). 
 And we've seen the Snape face-of-fury quite a bit now, but here is 
 our first glimpse. I see his outbursts of fury coming at points when 
 he may appear weak or feels out of control. What sets him off in 
 this scene so dramatically? There is no reason, really, to be 
 furious with Harry here, within the context of the story- all Harry 
 has seen is that his leg is injured. Is it truly that he is thrown 
 back in time to his "worst memory" by having a Potter see his bare 
 legs? Or in the big picture, where does Snape's fury come from? 
  Oryomai: Harry was kinda eavesdropping. Severus, of all people, knows that good generally does not come from hearing parts of conversations! I don't think it's anything about the Pensieve scene...I think he just doesn't like other people thinking that he is weak, and this is definitely showing weakness.
  
  Celia:
  10. I was thinking about the recent thread about Snape being 
 fixated the past, or being past- oriented when reading the Mirror of 
 Erised chapter again. While Harry is able to break free of the hold 
 his past might have on him in the mirror, in some ways Snape cannot 
 break away from the past. It seems Snape's life is very much 
 dictated by fixation on the past (marauders in particular), and that 
 DD's remark, "It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live," 
 might apply to Snape, except it would be "dwell on the past." Of 
 course, it also speaks volumes to what Harry failed to learn in time 
 for OotP (dreams, Harry! geez…)
  
 Oryomai: I think we're all past-oriented. Everyone's decisions are shaped by what has happened in their past. He has a past that's pretty high up there on the terrible list -- he's an ex-Death Eater. He has to spend half his time thinking that someone is out to get him. And with his past, is he tied to all of it, or is it just that we only think about it when the Marauders are involved? Potions seems to be something that he figured out all on his own. His spells are something he did on his own. I don't think Harry gets past his past very well. Every time something happens at Hogwarts, he assumes that Severus is involved. Harry isn't innocent of this. I don't think Severus is either, but I don't think it's as bad as everyone makes it out to be.
  
 Celia:
  11. My bulleted list of other SS/PS topics that I believe will 
 play in the end:
 *Grindelwald?
 *Centaurs?
 *"Snape was trying to *save* me?" (Harry, pg.289) 
 *"…your mother needn't have died…" (Quirrell, pg. 294) 
 *"Always use the proper names for things." (DD, pg. 298) (I don't 
 know, every witch and wizard says "Voldemort" at the same instant, 
 and PooF! Yay! (Uh oh, better wrap up, I'm getting tired.)) 
  Oryomai: *Well, I really liked the TBAY post the other day about LV being DD. So, going along with that, maybe LV!DD went to the past and redeemed himself by killing Grindelwald. Just a thought...
 *I think we saw all we're going to from the centaurs as a whole. Firenze, on the other hand, might actually have something to teach us. *Life Debt? Maybe Harry will figure out Wormtail has one to him someday....
  *Well, we are going to find out more about the night the lights went out in Godric's Hollow...
   
 And I don't touch the missing 24 hours! I get too confused! 
 Fabulous post! Oryomai, who thinks maybe one of the Potters' MIA friends was there that night and that's why they haven't contacted Harry....
        
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