[HPforGrownups] And in the end...SS/PS

[Kathryn Jones]

No: HPFGUIDX 164668

cdayr wrote:

> Greetings!
> As I'm sure many of you have been, I have been re-reading the series 
> again in advanced final preparation to Know Everything on July 21. 
> Although I would happily talk about Snape, and Snape alone until the 
> last moment <g>, I had an idea to try and mix it up a bit.
snip
> So let's go: PS/SS!
> Just to change it up, I'll start with a reference I'm interested in 
> at the very end of PS/SS (all references are the U.S. Paperback Ed):
> 
> 1.	"Sent owls off ter all yer parents' old school friends," 
> (pg. 304) says Hagrid, as he gives Harry the photo album at the end 
> of the book. This seems to be a reference to a number of old friends 
> that Hagrid has easy access to. Do we know any of these old friends 
> (aside from Lupin, the only one we know for sure)? Is this the 
> Order, or are there further relationships between characters we know 
> and the Potters that will be revealed in DH? (assuming JKR is 
> truthful that no new major characters are to come.) Will Harry's 
> ability to pull people together also include his parents' friends? 
> 
> 2.	Hagrid is the Keeper of the Keys (pg. 48). Although this has 
> been discussed ad nauseum in the past, I still believe that in this 
> title lies the fact that Hagrid is a "key" to the ending of the 
> books and the defeat of Voldemort. How, you ask? Hmma piece of 
> information he has, something he witnessed, something from Tom's 
> Hogwart's years that he knows, something about Snape? What do you 
> think?

   KJ:

      I have always thought that Hagrid knows much more than what it 
seems.  He defends Snape, although he won't meet Harry's eyes when he 
says that Snape doesn't hate him. He mentions three separate times that 
it would be madness to try to rob Gringotts, which indicates to me a 
knowledge of something. Perhaps DD is anticipating an attempt that 
Hagrid doesn't believe can happen.

> 3.	"Dunno if he had enough human left in him to die." (Hagrid, 
> pg. 57) Hmm, awfully close to horcruxes during the very first 
> discussion of Voldy! This statement is so close to what we finally 
> learn to be true 6 books later, I wonderis this just the writing of 
> a woman who was unsure any more books in the series would be 
> published? Or does Hagrid know more than he lets on? Or is it common 
> knowledge that VM is less than human or changed? Seems like a very 
> accurate statement from Hagrid at this point. I'm keeping my eye on 
> Hagrid.

   KJ:

     I think that Voldemort's appearance was obviously changed.  Hagrid 
would have been involved in the prior war with Voldemort and has always 
been a trusted lieutenant for Dumbledore.  He knows a great deal.
> 
> 4.	"There's not a single witch or wizard who went bad who 
> wasn't in Slytherin." (pg. 80) The alienation of the Slytherin crowd 
> is a huge theme, started here in SS/PS, which I believe will hold a 
> key to the resolution of the series as well. As someone (sorry I 
> forget who) said recently, this statement is both extremely biased 
> (poor Harry never stands a chance of thinking fairly about the 
> Slytherins- he didn't even make it through his first wizardish day 
> without being told that Slytherins are no good) it is also just 
> untrue (Peter Pettigrew, anyone? And at the time, everyone thought 
> Sirius was a bad as they come- oops, sorry, wrong book, getting 
> ahead of myself). How do all of our "good" characters get to justify 
> this bias? How does JKR? How does this bias self-perpetuate, as in 
> Draco's desire to be in Slytherin? What will break this down (as I 
> believe it must be broken in the end)?
> 
> 5.	Ollivander's eyes, his creepy glassy eyes really stuck out 
> to me as I was reading today. "Wide, pale eyes, shining like moons
> Harry wished he would blink. Those silvery eyes were a bit creepy
> Harry could see himself reflected in those misty eyes." (pgs. 82-83) 
> I am of the belief that Ollivander is not dead, but captive or fled 
> to Voldemort, and will be important in DH. This description of him 
> is far more sinister than I remember, and reads to me as someone 
> hiding things- similar to Snape's glittering eyes. Will Ollivander 
> be able to alter VM's wand to operate successfully against Harry? 
> What else might a sinister Ollivander do to alter the possible final 
> outcome of the books? Where is he?

   KJ:

    I suspect that Ollivander is in hiding at Dumbledore's request to 
prevent Voldemort from changing his wand.  I don't think that would fit 
in with Dumbledore's plans.
> 
> 6.	Is Quidditch included in the book just for fun, house 
> rivalry, and reader interest? Is there anything about Quidditch in 
> this first book in particular that adds to the overall mystery and 
> fight with VM? Oh, Quidditch

   KJ:

     I find Quidditch hguely boring.
> 
> 7.	Alright, a lovely Snape moment that becomes more beautiful 
> with our wizened HBP eyes: " Snape and Filch were inside, alone. 
> Snape was holding his robe above his knees. One of his legs was 
> bloody and mangledHarry tried to shut the door quietly, but
> "POTTER!" Snape's face was twisted with fury as he dropped his robes 
> quickly to hide his leg.the expression on Snape's face when Harry 
> had seen his leg wasn't easy to forget." (pgs. 182-183) The 
> parallels with the "levicorpus" incident in the pensieve are just 
> glaring to me in this scene (sensitive about his legs, our Severus). 
> And we've seen the Snape face-of-fury quite a bit now, but here is 
> our first glimpse. I see his outbursts of fury coming at points when 
> he may appear weak or feels out of control. What sets him off in 
> this scene so dramatically? There is no reason, really, to be 
> furious with Harry here, within the context of the story- all Harry 
> has seen is that his leg is injured. Is it truly that he is thrown 
> back in time to his "worst memory" by having a Potter see his bare 
> legs? Or in the big picture, where does Snape's fury come from?

   KJ:

     On re-reading this book, I see hints that Snape is very wary, 
almost fearful of Harry. I think that there is a suspicion that Harry 
may have a connection with Voldemorte, and Snape fears it.  When Harry 
flew past him, without warning, in the Quidditch game, Snape landed 
"white-faced and tight-lipped." To me, this might explain some of 
Snape's hostility toward Harry.
  >
> 8.	Norbert must come back, right? I mean really, he's a 
> Chekhov's gun, isn't he? Have to bring him back to resolve the act 
> one introduction. Just a thought.

   KJ:

	I think that Charlie and Norbert will be back.  Why else have a dragon 
trainer? :-)
> 
> 9.	"Your father left this in my possession before he died." 
> (pg. 202) So, I guess we should all still be thinking about why 
> James left the Invisibility Cloak with DD, since JKR says we should. 
> I have read so many ideas about this over time: Regulus or someone 
> else needed it to go into hiding, someone (apparently not Snape) was 
> under it at GH, etc. Well, any further thoughts on the ol' cloak? 
> Also, the fact that this is supposedly important does give me hope 
> that JKR is planning to tell us quite a bit about the events leading 
> up to the Potters' deaths- if we will know why James left the cloak, 
> then hopefully we will know even more about what he was up to back 
> then.

   KJ:

     I am betting that Snape was at GH, trying to warn the Potters when 
Voldemort arrived. JKR said that he was not hiding under the 
invisibility cloak, not that he wasn't there.
> 
> 10.	I was thinking about the recent thread about Snape being 
> fixated the past, or being past- oriented when reading the Mirror of 
> Erised chapter again. While Harry is able to break free of the hold 
> his past might have on him in the mirror, in some ways Snape cannot 
> break away from the past. It seems Snape's life is very much 
> dictated by fixation on the past (marauders in particular), and that 
> DD's remark, "It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live," 
> might apply to Snape, except it would be "dwell on the past." Of 
> course, it also speaks volumes to what Harry failed to learn in time 
> for OotP (dreams, Harry! geez)

   KJ:

    Dreams, compared to memories, are crucial in this book, I think. 
Harry, while awake, recalls a flash of green light and a high, cold 
laugh.  This would indicate an old memory.  Later he dreams that he is 
wearing a turban, and again sees a green flash of light and hears a 
high,cold laugh.  This might tend to suggest that he is seeing 
Voldemort's memory of the same event. Later, again, he has several 
nightmares with the green flash of light and the laugh.
> 
> 11.	My bulleted list of other SS/PS topics that I believe will 
> play in the end:
> *Grindelwald?
> *Centaurs?
> *"Snape was trying to *save* me?" (Harry, pg.289) 

   KJ:

    We see Snape refereeing the game to keep an eye on Harry, and later 
in the book, Harry feels like he is running into Snape wherever he goes. 
  Some of that might be to keep an eye on Harry, and some of it to 
protect Harry.

> 12.	Finally, The Biggie (and go over it again or don't, we just 
> can't ignore it in this type of list, if you ask me): The missing 24 
> hours. I know we have gone over it and over it, but anyway:

   KJ:

     I would like to know as well!
> 
> How does the entire wizarding world know about VM's defeat by the 
> morning of that first Tuesday? Who was able to send the first owls 
> out that fast? 
> Where were Hagrid and Harry all day?
> Why is McGonagall waiting all day at 4 Privet Drive? She must assume 
> that it is possible that DD and Harry might show up at any time 
> during the day, so this deepens the mystery of Where-is-Hagrid-All-
> Day? When did she see Hagrid?
> Who was at GH and what the heck happened? If this isn't essential to 
> the end, I'll eat my hat. And it is a big, woolen hat. 
snip
> Celia (aka CDR)

   KJ:

    Good questions Celia.