Wanted! Complex Female Adult Character: (was:Re: ESE!McGonagall...

[zgirnius]

No: HPFGUIDX 164705


> Betsy Hp:
 
> So rather than a need for a "strong" female character, I guess I'm 
> just looking for a *likable* one.  Honestly, I don't think JKR is 
any 
> good at writing females.  She either goes for the funny stereotype, 
> like McGonogall, or the super!strong!wonder!chick like Ginny.  

zgirnius:
I think you need to consider the possibility that your aesthetic 
sensibilities and JKR's simply don't mesh in this area. Until HBP, 
Hermione was my favorite character. (I was not at all turned off by 
her in HBP, she just loses out to Snape now.) I will be the first to 
agree that she is not perfect (as a person, not a not character), 
which is part of her appeal. I don't find her to be a stereotype, but 
a very particular person with her own distinctive set of traits and 
interests.  Other female characters I can honestly say I like very 
much are Molly Weasley and Professor McGonagall.

Other female characters I find interesting, without considering them 
jugely likable, include Luna Lovegood (I am to much a Hermione myself 
to *really* like Luna) and Narcissa Malfoy (she's a 'black hat', for 
me that's an obstacle).

This is not really an area one can debate, since you can hardly deny 
that these characters are likable to me, and thus could 
hypothetically be likable to any number of other people whose likes 
are closer to mine than to yours.

BetsyHP: 
> It's when JKR decides to enter "strong female character" territory 
> that she falls flat, IMO. 

zgirnius:
I consider McGonagall to be a member of the strong female characters 
club. What's not strong about her? Ditto Hermione, and Molly.


BetsyHP:
>  (I 
> still think Molly is supposed to be at least a tiny bit annoying 
> instead of stand in for perfect motherhood, so I let that bit go.)  
> And if Hermione goes through some growth I'll probably end up okay 
> with the series.  (And believe me, my fingers are crossed.)]

zgirnius:
Oh, since I love Molly, I agree, she does not stand in for perfect 
motherhood. Why should she? That would make her a stereotype. Sure, 
she is occasionally annoying. So are some of the people in RL with 
whom I have the closest emotional ties. This does not make her 
unlikable to me, or a weak female character.


> Betsy Hp:
> So it all becomes a bit 
> forced.  Lily is a Saint, McGonogall is the perfect "strict 
teacher", 
> etc.  But neither of them *really* touch Harry's life, because they 
> just aren't real.  They're plaster stand-ins, especially when 
> compared to the guys.

zgirnius:
We can't even call Lily a plaster stand in. What we (and Harry) know 
of her and her friends is dwarfed by what is known of James and his 
friends. Other than the obvious impact on his life (he's still 
alive!) she hasn't had a chance to affect Harry. This is an area in 
which I really think it is premature to judge Rowling before DH, 
because Lily is at the center of the biggest mystery in the series 
(what happened in GH). We will be learning more about her. What 
impact, if any, Harry's discoveries about her will make on him 
remains unclear.

> BestyHP:
> Honestly, I think in many ways Molly is the most real of 
> JKR's "mother" creations.  She just happens to encapsulate some of 
> the worst aspects of motherhood.  Interestingly enough, Molly has 
> very little impact in Harry's life, I think.  And I think because 
it 
> would highlight Molly's weaknesses too much, fandom doesn't discuss 
> Arthur with the same vigor they bring to Sirius or Lupin 
> discussions.  

zgirnius:
I always thought this is because, unlike Molly, Arthur is boring. 
Sirius and Lupin were cool kids in school, Sirius is a big tragic 
figure and much loved by Harry, and Lupin...OK, I get less why he is 
supposed to be so interesting, unless Pippin is right, and the 
blandness is an act concealing a villain. And he has certainly not 
had a real impact on Harry's life. He's a nice teacher who has taught 
Harry some stuff and told him some things about his father.