Wanted! Complex Female Adult Character: (was:Re: ESE!McGonagall...

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 164724

Betsy Hp:
> Hermione is strong.  I think she's JKR's one exception.  My worry 
with Hermione goes back to likability.  I don't like Hermione (as she
 is now), don't admire her, etc.  So again, aesthetics, as you said.

Carol responds:
It's impossible to argue likeability, but I think I understand what
you're saying here. Hermione is starting to think that, because she's
on the good side, she can get away with behavior that isn't entirely
admirable (the sneak jinx in OoP, blackmailing Rita Skeeter, attacking
Ron with birds, etc.). Like many very young people, she always thinks
she's right. Are you concerned that she's going to go too far, to do
something that endangers the Trio, in Book 7? 

I keep hoping that she'll find out that you can't find the answers to
all of life's questions in reference books, and that Luna's intuition
will prove right and Hermione's practical/rational approach wrong at
some point, just to shake her out of I-know-everything mode. (BTW, I
think she's *right* to object to Harry's getting credit for someone
else's Potions experiments. The HBP worked hard to figure out
improvements that Harry gets high marks for. Sure, she's jealous, but
that doesn't make what Harry is doing ethical.)

It isn't that I don't like her (though I confess I don't like post-GoF
Ginny), but I think she needs to grow out of that stage. I think I was
twenty-one when I realized that I didn't know everything, so maybe I'm
asking a bit much. (As for whether she's "strong" or not, Harry and
Ron would have had a hard time surviving that third-floor corridor
without her. And that's just the first book.)
> 
BetsyHP:
> I will admit that I'm always shocked when people say Molly is 
> strong.  She can't even keep her own child from being thrown out of 
> her home.  What's strong about that?  <snip>

Carol responds:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Percy walk out of the house on his
own after quarrelling with Arthur? He wasn't "thrown" out. And he was
nineteen at the time, a "man" by WW standards. He also returned the
sweater (the British term slips my mind) she knitted him on his own
initiative. I like Percy in those rare moments when he forgets his
dignity and openly shows affection for his family, notably wading out
to meet Ron after the second task, but returning the sweater was
cruel. He walks out on his father, then breaks his mother's heart as
if the quarrel were *her* fault?

BetsyHP:
<snip> And, IMO, Arthur, delt the best with the Dursleys and may have
been the only one to actually shame them (until the twins of course,
Molly's little helpers).

Carol:
I don't understand what you're getting at here. You approve of Arthur
for shaming the Dursleys (for not saying good-bye to Harry, right?)
but I thought you *dis*approved of the Twins, who pranked Dudley to
punish him for being a bullying git because it's wrong to torture a
helpless Muggle. (Here, it sounds as if you approve of them.) But how
are the Twins "Molly's little helpers"? Why do you think that Molly
would approve of Muggle-baiting (or whatever we call it when the
"baited" Muggle is punished for being himself rather than for being a
Muggle)? Arthur reproves them but tries to protect them from Molly,
who, IIRC, is extremely angry at them for what they've done. She also
doesn't approve of their working on Ton-Tongue Toffees for six months
rather than studying for their OWLs.

It's fine to dislike Molly (even though I like her). We all have our
favorite and least favorite (nails across the blackboard) characters
and it's all subjective. But can you clarify what you mean here? Is it
really fair to call them "Molly's little helpers" when she disapproves
of so much that they do?

Carol, who doesn't care whether the female characters are "strong" or
not but would like to see them analyzed a little more objectively