Father Figures / Hermione's Path / The Molly Question (long!) (was:Wanted!Comple

[zgirnius]

No: HPFGUIDX 164760

> >zgirnius:
> > Lupin was a make or break part of PoA. I would not say he is 
the   
> > same to the story as a whole. I don't see that he has had 
more     
> > emotional impact on Harry than McG.
> > <snip>
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> I *strongly* disagree.  Fandom has never spent time wondering when 
> McGonagall is going to get off her duff and become a mother-figure 
> for Harry.  
But between every book since Lupin's introduction there's 
> a large group of readers just sure Lupin is going to have a huge 
role 
> in the next book as one of Harry's father-figures.  I think there's 
a 
> reason for that.

zgirnius:
And in my opinion, his absence in the last three books confirms to me 
that a certain section of fandom was wrong. Not having been in that 
(or any other) section of fandom back in the PoA days, I can only 
guess why that is (as I already have, upthread). My best guess is 
that this is because he was a way cool friend of James, he has that 
horrible affliction for us to pity, and he's a nice guy, and fans 
wanted to see more of him. 

I read GoF right after PoA, and was not particularly surprised at the 
lack of Lupin. 

> BetsyHP:
> Part of it has to do with the amount of personal time Lupin spent 
> with Harry in PoA.  Part of it has to do with the emotional 
> connection Lupin made with Harry: an emotional connection no other 
> adult has ever made.  Lupin was able to slow Harry down while Harry 
> was in the middle of "mission mode" and get Harry to think. (Once 
> after sneaking out to Hogsmeade,

zgirnius:
Lupin, in that scene, was ineffective in (what Sirius suggests is) 
his usual way. He was able to make Harry feel ashamed, after the 
fact. (Dumbledore has this same ability, as demonstrated in HBP 
regarding the Sluggish Memory.) This did not prevent Harry from 
engaging in further dangerous escapades, as evidenced by the final 
several chapters of the book. If Harry had taken Lupin's words to 
heart, he would not have been sneaking around the school grounds and 
offering Sirius a chance to pounce on Ron.

BetsyHP:
> and more obviously in the Shrieking  Shack.)  

zgirnius:
In the Shack, it seems to me that it was *Harry* who influenced Lupin 
(by preventing his and Sirius's intended revenge murder of Peter). 
Harry did listen to Lupin, but this is because he wanted to know the 
answers Lupin was giving him. If McGonagall had stories to tell him 
about his father, I daresay he would listen to her as well.

He does consider McGonagall's opinions of and probable reactions to 
his actions, by the way. They don't necessarily influence him, but 
then neither do Lupin's.

> OotP, "Career Advice"
> He could just imagine Professor McGonagall's reaction if he were 
caught trespassing in Professor Umbridge's office mere hours after 
she had vouched for him....

BatsyHP:
> She could have, I think, had JKR chosen to go that route.  As 
Harry's 
> head of house, McGonagall could well have taken time to get to know 
> Harry personally and given Harry a chance to get to know her.  But 
> JKR puts Lupin in that role.  So when Harry starts teaching himself 
> in OotP, it's Lupin who buys him some helpful books.  And it's 
Lupin 
> that we the readers get some background on, and it's Lupin that we 
> spend time talking about.

zgirnius:
We learn nothing about Lupin that does not relate directly to either 
James, or the Order's activities. The Prank, Marauding, SWM, spying 
on werewolves...

OK, in HBP we learn Tonks has fallen for him, and Harry is the last 
to know.

> Betsy Hp:
> Snape is a *major* player in Harry's father-figure olympics.  

zgirnius:
No argument there. And hey, we even learn things about his background 
that don't have anything to do with Harry's parents or the Order!