Father Figures (was: Wanted! Complex Adult Female...)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 164773

> >>zgirnius:
> > <snip> 
> > I don't see that he [Lupin] has had more emotional impact on      
> > Harry than McG.
> > <snip>

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > I *strongly* disagree.  Fandom has never spent time wondering    
> > when McGonagall is going to get off her duff and become a mother-
> > figure for Harry. But between every book since Lupin's           
> > introduction there's a large group of readers just sure Lupin is 
> > going to have a huge role in the next book as one of Harry's     
> > father-figures.
> > <snip>

> >>zgirnius:
> And in my opinion, his absence in the last three books confirms to 
> me that a certain section of fandom was wrong.

Betsy Hp:
They've been wrong about Lupin being a near perfect father-figure for 
Harry.  But Lupin hasn't been completely absent, and whenever he 
shows up he has an emotional sort of scene with Harry that McGonagall 
never does.  Which is why fandom keeps on waiting. <g>

What I find interesting with Lupin and Harry is that it's more Lupin 
pulling away from Harry, it's Lupin who holds back, while Harry is 
the one asking for information, for a connection for help.  It's like 
a mirror of the relationship Harry has with Sirius in a way.

But either way, McGonagall doesn't have that sort of closeness with 
Harry.  Even the not all that close, closeness, that Harry has with 
Lupin.  McGonagall is the quintessential teacher for Harry, I think: 
admirable but not entirely human.  (I'm picturing a Calvin and Hobbes 
strip where Calvin is shocked *shocked* to run into his teacher at a 
grocery store. "She *eats*!?!")

And really, I think that's how nearly all Harry's mother-figures come 
across: not quite real.

> >>zgirnius:
> Not having been in that (or any other) section of fandom back in   
> the PoA days, I can only guess why that is (as I already have,      
> upthread). My best guess is that this is because he was a way cool 
> friend of James...

Betsy Hp:
Exactly!  Lupin is a very real connection back to Harry's father.  By 
getting to know both Lupin and Sirius, Harry is able to get a tiny 
bit of connection to his father.  Something that both Harry and the 
readers have had for four books now.  While we've only had one book 
with someone connecting Harry back to his mother. (And that the much 
more remote Slughorn.)

> >>zgirnius:
>...he has that horrible affliction for us to pity, and he's a nice   
> guy, and fans wanted to see more of him. 
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Right, Lupin is a person of interest, because JKR has made Lupin 
interesting.  Because she wants Harry (as well as the readers) 
interested.  So she gives Lupin interesting flaws while McGonagall 
stays remote and perfect. 

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip>
> > Lupin was able to slow Harry down while Harry was in the middle   
> > of "mission mode" and get Harry to think. (Once after sneaking    
> > out to Hogsmeade...

> >>zgirnius:
> Lupin, in that scene, was ineffective in (what Sirius suggests is) 
> his usual way. He was able to make Harry feel ashamed, after the 
> fact.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Because he didn't know what Harry was going to do before Harry did 
it.  IIRC, Harry doesn't sneak back into Hogsmeade after Lupin speaks 
to him.  But honestly, Lupin doesn't have to be all that affective.  
As I've said, none of Harry's father-figures are all that great.  
They all have rather fatal weaknesses that keep them from being fully 
capable mentors to Harry.  Which makes the story interesting.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > ...and more obviously in the Shrieking  Shack.)  

> >>zgirnius:
> In the Shack, it seems to me that it was *Harry* who influenced    
> Lupin (by preventing his and Sirius's intended revenge murder of    
> Peter). Harry did listen to Lupin, but this is because he wanted to 
> know the answers Lupin was giving him. If McGonagall had stories to 
> tell him about his father, I daresay he would listen to her as well.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
But McGonagall *doesn't* have those stories.  Or at least she doesn't 
share them with Harry.  And Lupin is able to stop Harry from doing 
whatever he was going to do to Sirius and listen to Lupin's story.  
But that Harry also influences Lupin shows the give and take of their 
relationship, something else that's missing from Harry's interactions 
with McGonagall.

> >>zgirnius:
> He does consider McGonagall's opinions of and probable reactions to 
> his actions, by the way. They don't necessarily influence him, but 
> then neither do Lupin's.
> 
> OotP, "Career Advice"
> He could just imagine Professor McGonagall's reaction if he were 
> caught trespassing in Professor Umbridge's office mere hours after 
> she had vouched for him....

Betsy Hp:
Well, yeah.  But when Harry is in trouble or is troubled, he doesn't 
seek out McGonagall.  He turns to Lupin or Arthur or Sirius or even 
Snape.

And actually, I think that's part of the reason I don't like 
Dumbledore as father-figure.  He really is too remote.  That password 
on his office entrance, for example.  There have been times that 
Harry needs help or advice and either Dumbledore isn't reachable or 
Harry's too intimidated to go to him.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > She could have, I think, had JKR chosen to go that route.  As 
> > Harry's head of house, McGonagall could well have taken time to   
> > get to know Harry personally and given Harry a chance to get to   
> > know her.  But JKR puts Lupin in that role.
> > <snip>

> >>zgirnius:
> We learn nothing about Lupin that does not relate directly to      
> either James, or the Order's activities. The Prank, Marauding, SWM, 
> spying on werewolves...
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
So?  JKR tells a tight tale.  James was involved in the Order and the 
fight against Voldemort, as is Harry.  The point is, we learn 
something about Lupin.  And Sirius.  And Hagrid. And Arthur.  But we 
don't learn all that much about McGonagall.  What does she do for the 
Order again? <g>

Betsy Hp