Snape, Lily & the Potions textbook

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 164854

Alla:
> Heee, you see Ceridwen, I knew there would be a right place to post 
what I was telling you yesterday.

Ceridwen:
Heee!  That's why I don't post too often in these threads: sooner or 
later someone else says what I wanted to say first, so I come along 
with what amounts to a big "Me, too."

The thing is, it's so interesting to see what everyone is saying.  I 
agree with Cassy, that Harry has been underestimating Lily for the 
last six books.  He's growing up a young man and so is more 
interested in his father, but the irony of that is, it was his 
mother's sacrifice that kept him alive and enabled the fulfillment of 
part of the prophecy, of LV marking the One.

But, I agree with Carol, too, that Snape is a genius in Potions in 
his own right, and doesn't need to have Lily Evans writing in his 
Potions text.  I don't see why Lily being good at Potions means that 
Snape can't be.  This may not be what is meant in these discussions, 
but sometimes, that's how it reads to me:  Lily was the genius, Lily 
made the improvements, Lily wrote in Snape's book (Didn't she have a 
book of her own?), and so on.  I don't think it's an either/or - 
either Lily was good at Potions or Snape was.

Alla:
> Slughorn praise of her is enough for me to believe that Lily was 
very talented at least, whether the notes in the book are hers or not.

Ceridwen:
I don't see why Lily can't be talented if Snape is.  I do think 
Slughorn has a soft spot for young Lily.  She's bright, she's pretty, 
she's cheeky, and she's overcome an obstacle of birth to someone like 
Slughorn, who is genteely prejudiced and not aware at all that he 
is.  I don't think, based on what we've seen of Slughorn's 
collecting, that he gave young Severus much thought.  Snape was 
bright, but he wasn't personable, he was a loner from what we've 
seen, and he was headed down the wrong path.  He was as likely to end 
up infamous instead of famous if he was noteworthy at all.  I don't 
think Slughorn's aversion to potential DEs that we saw in HBP is a 
new thing.  He was very aware of what his mentoring of Tom Riddle 
might look like to a disinterested observer, see the faked memory.  
Speculation:  He might have been aware of it even during VWI.

So, I think Slughorn is still pushing one of his Slug Clubbers at the 
expense of a non-club-member when he praises Lily and doesn't praise 
Snape.  Though, I also do agree with Carol and someone else, who said 
that the "Even you, Severus..." sounds like he is speaking about the 
pinnacle of the students, Snape.

And, yes, I do think Snape could excel in both Potions and DADA.  I 
also think that Lily could excel in Potions and Charms.  The smart 
kids I knew back in high school were smart in several different 
subjects, not just one.

Alla:
> If one thinks that the crucial connection would be Harry/Snape, 
then sure notes in the book have to be Snape's to make sure that 
Harry had at least one point when he sympathised with young Snape, 
etc,etc,etc.
*(snip)*
Alla, thinks that Lily making those notes would have a layer of new 
and delightful irony.

Ceridwen:
If we find DDM!Snape in DH, then there will need to be some 
connection between Harry and Snape.  Given DDM!Snape, then JKR has 
set up the Potions book to perform that function, I think.  It will 
help the story along.

I think Harry's connection with Lily will be on a more personal level 
than Potions.  Potions had nothing to do with her sacrifice as far as 
we know now.  When we see Harry's connection to James, as we 
discussed, it was not in connection with a class though he did see 
James at Hogwarts - the connection was in James's interaction with 
his friends, in his sacrifice at GH, in the impression he made on 
people, and from OotP onward, in his dramatic change from two-against-
one James to Hero James.

Sure, James became an Animagus, but that has had very little to do 
with Harry other than to give him an idea of the extent James would 
go to for his friends.  In my opinion, of course - Harry hasn't 
become an Animagus.  Also in my opinion, Lily's big connection to 
Harry being a class in school just isn't at the heart level.  It was 
her sacrificial love that saved him, so I think the big reveal for 
Harry will be on that level, too.

I wholeheartedly agree that Harry will need to make a connection to 
Lily in order to complete his journey to Manhood, and also to connect 
to the Hero inside of himself.  I just think it will be more 
elemental than Potions notes.

Ceridwen, wondering if whatever the connection to Lily is hasn't been 
under Harry's (and the reader's) nose all along, and wondering what 
it could be.