Snape, Lily & the Potions textbook

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 164888

Ceridwen wrote:
<snip> I agree with Carol, too, that Snape is a genius in Potions in 
> his own right, and doesn't need to have Lily Evans writing in his 
> Potions text.  I don't see why Lily being good at Potions means that 
> Snape can't be.  This may not be what is meant in these discussions, 
> but sometimes, that's how it reads to me:  Lily was the genius, Lily 
> made the improvements, Lily wrote in Snape's book (Didn't she have a 
> book of her own?), and so on.  I don't think it's an either/or - 
> either Lily was good at Potions or Snape was.

Carol responds:

Agreed so far. Besides, the handwriting for the spells, which we
*know* that young Snape is invented, is the same as that for the
Potions hints, which must also be his. (They're in his book and his
handwriting, yet somehow they're Lily's? It does not compute.)
Slughorn mentions Lily *only* as the reason he thinks that Harry is
doing well in Potions, a reason that the reader (and Harry) know to be
wrong. Ironically, the real reason is that he's using Severus Snape's
Potions notes without knowing it! If he were using Lily's notes rather
than having her genes, where's the irony? And, as Magpie says, what's
the point of the whole HBP storyline if the HBP--Potions hints as well
as spells--isn't "I, the Half-Blood Prince" Severus Snape?


Ceridwen:
> I don't see why Lily can't be talented if Snape is.  I do think 
> Slughorn has a soft spot for young Lily.  She's bright, she's
pretty, she's cheeky, and she's overcome an obstacle of birth to
someone like Slughorn, who is genteely prejudiced and not aware at all
that he is.  

Carol:
With you so far. There can be little doubt that Slughorn would want to
"collect" Lily and add her to the Slug Club.

Ceridwen:
I don't think, based on what we've seen of Slughorn's collecting, that
he gave young Severus much thought.  Snape was bright, but he wasn't
personable, he was a loner from what we've seen, and he was headed
down the wrong path.  He was as likely to end up infamous instead of
famous if he was noteworthy at all.  <snip>

Carol:
Here I differ with you. If he can get past Lily's being a Muggleborn,
he can get past Severus's unpleasant personality (which might not have
been particularly visible in a class he excelled at taught by his own
HoH). I think that, like the young Lucius Malfoy, Slughorn would have
spotted Severus's talents and nurtured them. "I taught him. I thought
I knew him" indicates something like affection, as does "Even you,
Severus." And we don't see any other teacher except, oddly, Trelawney,
at Slughorn's Christmas party, where all the attendees are current or
former Slug Club members and their dates. (Trelawney could have been a
member in her day thanks to her famous great-grandmother Cassandra.)
Slughorn at all times treats Snape with respect and affection, putting
his arm around his shoulders and dragging him into a conversation with
a supposed fellow prodigy. 

Nor would Severus have shown signs of being a DE when he first showed
up at Hogwarts at age eleven knowing all those hexes, which could not
have been any worse than his toenail hex or Langlock or Levicorpus.
and certainly, being sorted into Slytherin wouldn't count against him.
Slughorn was Head of that House. I don't see Sevvie heading down a
wrong path until at least sixth year, after the so-called Prank. (The
Sectumsempra Spell, marked "for enemies" was in his NEWTs Potions
book. And *if* the spell he cast on James, which didn't "cut forever"
or require a complex Healing spell to save James from bleeding to
death like a hemophiliac with a cut finger, was an early or controlled
form of Sectumsempra, that was still late in his fifth year. The other
spells are all harmless and easily reversed, as easily used by
Hogwarts students as by DEs intent on their idea of a good time.

Ceridwen:
Though, I also do agree with Carol and someone else, who said that the
"Even you, Severus..." sounds like he is speaking about the pinnacle
of the students, Snape. <snip>

Carol:
Exactly. And surely Slughorn would want the most brilliant student in
both his House and his subject in the Slug Club? Imagine the favors
Slughorn would have expected from Snape if he rose to prominence as a
researcher at the MoM or St. Mungo's. (*And* he would have known
Sevvie's mother, who for all we know was also gifted in Potions.)


> Ceridwen, wondering if whatever the connection to Lily is hasn't
been under Harry's (and the reader's) nose all along, and wondering
what it could be.
>
Carol:
I think it's above his nose (and below his scar)--a pair of green eyes
that have been pointed out as resembling Lily's in every book. Of
course, they may have served their purpose already in the Slughorn
memory incident, but that would be a bit of a letdown after all the
build-up.

Carol, who thinks that, whatever we have yet to learn about Lily, it
isn't that she invented the Potions hints in the HBP's book