Bathroom scene again WAS: Re:Weasley Family Dynamics

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 164957

> Magpie:
> I'm not saying she necessarily would have taken the same position 
> here, I was just using it to show that Harry's having his say about 
> how Draco used an Unforgivable and started it all would not 
> necessarily be all there was to it. I doubt it would, actually, 
> given the extent of the damage. I'm sure she gets it's a fight and 
> wouldn't be surprised to learn that Draco started it and fought 
> viciously--the bathroom's destroyed. She seems like a character 
more 
> likely not looking for reasons this sort of thing is okay, even if 
> she does see times when violence is necessary. 

Alla:

Well, I would hope that Minerva is the kind of character who does 
think that **that sort of thing** as you call it or **self-defense 
from unforgivable curse** as I call it, is Okay indeed. Otherwise I 
would be very dissapointed, personally :)

 
> Magpie:
> Whatever Snape's reasons for talking or not talking about 
> Sectumsempra, the detentions are not specifically linked to Harry 
> hurting Draco and using Sectumsempra. Snape always wants to punish 
> Harry and give him detention, and when he gives him detention he 
> says, "I think you are a liar and a cheat and you deserve to be in 
> detention with me every Saturday." They've moved on to the question 
> of the book by then, which Harry is lying about. So Harry's getting 
> what's being asked for anyway--no one is on his case for hurting 
> someone else without acknowledging it was self-defense. 

Alla:

Not sure I understand, you are saying that Snape does not punish him 
for that? How so? Without Harry doing sectusemptra Snape would have 
no reason to give him detentions at all, book or no book IMO of 
course.


Magpie: 
> So Harry's not in a situation where he's being punished for hurting 
> Draco for no reason and if only people knew what really happened 
> things would be different.  Nothing about Harry's punishment hinges 
> on Draco's innocence. On the contrary, the whole detention shifts 
> quickly to Snape being a jerk and wanting an opportunity to tease 
> Harry because of his own issues--Snape, Sirius, etc. 

Alla:

Sure, he is a jerk, but I am just talking how it started, hehe.

 
> Magpie:
> I don't think anyone, least of all Harry, forgets that Malfoy 
> started it (when does he ever forget that?), and Malfoy was in a 
> state of mind where he was fighting like a desperate person. But 
> this issue doesn't really effect anything in canon because Harry's 
> *not* be accused of not having a reason to cast his curse or being 
> much criticized for hurting Malfoy. Ginny backs him up on that, Ron 
> brushes the injury aside, Hermione just thinks it's proving her 
> opinion of the Prince and cautions him about Quidditch. The only 
> person we actually hear has actually villified him is Pansy, 
because 
> she's Draco's girlfriend. Even when we're told the Slytherins are 
> jeering at him it's just described as general jeering.

Alla:

Well, I am not sure I follow again. Yes, Harry does not get 
criticized that he had no reason for hurting Malfoy, so maybe that is 
because he indeed had a reason to do so? Self defense, I mean?

I am not sure what your point here is, sorry.


 
> Magpie:
< BIG SNIP>
>I think JKR very deliberately makes any issues 
> about Harry's use of the curse between Harry and himself (or Harry 
> and God, or however one sees that sort of thing). He's free to take 
> Ginny's attitude and justify himself completely through self-
defense 
> while Draco pays the price for his daring to use Crucio in the 
> hospital wing. 

Alla:

Well, I just think that the fact that JKR makes Harry having any 
issues about that scene does not mean that Harry **has to** have 
issues about this scene, besides the fact that he used the weapon 
that he had no clue how it works.

But what else would one use against the one who attepts to cause you 
horrible pain but the curse marked for enemies?

As I said, I think Harry was stupid for thinking about Sectusemptra, 
Draco was something else IMO and I absolutely resist the argument 
that their responsibilities in this scene are even **close** to one 
another.

Imagine if Harry used I don't know, stupefy and Draco hit his head on 
the bathroom floor and died. Would you begrudge Harry for using that 
curse as well?

Because I would not see any issues then whatsoever, Harry would use 
the curse he knows works well and he was up against one of the most 
dangerous curses in the WW. And he was down on the floor himself.

But Malfoy would you know, still be dead. I am guessing that Harry 
would be a bit upset even in that event. Any normal human IMO would 
be upset after killed someone even in self defense, but should such 
human be upset for the longest time?

IMO no, it is just in this situation Harry used curse that made 
Malfoy bleed a lot. Would it been better if by complete accident 
Malfoy died painlessly?

JMO,

Alla