Bathroom scene again WAS: Re:Weasley Family Dynamics/To t...

[wynnleaf]

No: HPFGUIDX 165021

> 
> wynnleaf:
> Since I doubt that JKR wants us to think Harry was willing to use a
> deadly spell against McClaggen, I think we have to assume that 
Harry
> used Sectumsempra rather stupidly -- not choosing it because he
> thought it would likely be an excellent spell to use against 
someone
> casting an unforgiveable, but just using it because he'd been going
> around with it on his mind (to use the next chance McClaggen turned
> his back).
> 
> Magpie:
> I somewhat disagree. Harry has no idea the spell is deadly, but 
> there are no spells that are obviously an excellent spell to use 
> against someone casting an Unforgivable--except a spell that's 
> purely defensive and sheilds you from the Unforgivable. Anything 
> beyond that is presumably punishment.
> 
> For me this goes back to the imo important understanding between 
> Harry and the Prince. I got the impression that when he's just 
read 
> the spell he's hoping to "try it out" on McLaggen to see what it 
> does, because McLaggen is disliked by him enough to be a 
satisfying 
> guinea pig. He does assume that it doesn't kill--but then, the 
spell 
> doesn't kill. Had he just tried it out on McLaggen the way he was 
> planning it wouldn't have been deadly at all, most likely. The 
> reason it's deadly on Malfoy is in large part due to Harry's own 
> state of mind.

wynnleaf
I have no problem addressing the issue of Harry actually 
understanding that Sectumsempra really was a spell to be used on 
*true* enemies -- people who really are a threat.

But if we're going to do that, then we have to look seriously at 
what that means for Harry to intend to use it on McLaggen.  

If Harry sees Sectumsempra as something at least as powerful as say, 
Stupify, would he then consider it okay to stupify McLaggen?  Is 
this what JKR wants us to consider?

I'm not sure exactly which way she wants us to view it.  I think 
it's somewhat ambiguous.  But once again, it can't fall both ways.  
If Harry really thought that spell was something you use against a 
*real* threat, and yet was willing to use it on McLaggen, then Harry 
is not by any means the "good guy" he'd like to consider himself.  

Of course, I tend to see some other past actions of Harry to be 
extremely questionable, but at least most of those are against 
people (Draco and Co.) that Harry at least really thinks support 
Voldemort.  But McLaggen is just an irritating guy who is causing 
Harry a few headaches in the Quidditch and romance departments.  So 
this becomes a far more serious problem if Harry is willing to toss 
out a spell at McLaggen that he truly considers in a different 
realm -- that of spells for true enemies and dire threat.

Oh, I'm not theorizing the "Dark Harry" sort of idea.  I just mean 
that Harry sees himself as on the side of the good guys, therefore 
most of his actions and feelings are correspondingly considered 
okay.  Maybe Sectumsempra is a wake-up call.  But if so, Harry seems 
to mostly disregard it.

>wynnleaf
> He used it against Draco, not as some strategic tactic against an
> unforgiveable, but because it was a spell he'd had on his mind.
> 
> Magpie:
> He doesn't have the spell on his mind throughout the fight with 
> Draco, since he doesn't use it. He uses it, imo instinctively, in 
> the way he's been instructed to use it--"for enemies." Not for 
> pranks against annoying people like all the other spells in the 
> book.

wynnleaf
When I said he used it because he had it on his mind, I didn't mean 
that he was thinking of it in that immediate context, but that he'd 
been considering its use for some time.

If, as you say, Harry really didn't think of this as a spell for 
annoying people, but truly for enemies, then why plan to use it on 
McLaggan?  And when his back is *turned* no less!  

I'm not disagreeing with you, Magpie.  I'm just asking what you 
think this really means about Harry.

 
> Magpie
> I think this is definitely something Harry would be asking 
himself, 
> at least, and can never know the answer to, importantly, at least 
> not until he seriously analyzes his own feelings.

wynnleaf
If you're right, and this was JKR's intention, then hopefully we'll 
see Harry address a lot more about his feelings and motivations in 
Book 7, as regards others in general, not just how they relate to 
Snape.

wynnleaf