A Theory On Dumbledore's "Gleam of Triumph"

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 165101

Kaz wrote:
>
<snip>
> I used to believe, before the release of THBP, that however evil LV
most definitely was, the main reason for this was due to the rejection
by his natural father and the fact that this desertion led,
inadvertently or not, to the death of his mother. Although murdering
Tom Riddle Snr and his parents is undoubtedly extreme and points to an
unbalanced and dangerous individual even Harry is capable of avenging
his parents' death by killing the person responsible.
>
> However THBP showed me that this was not actually the case, perhaps
deep down it helped him decide who to murder to attain his first
horcrux but vengeance was not what drove him to murder in the first
place. Therefore, IMO, Riddle Jnr does not seem to possess normal
human emotions in any way. Everything he "feels" is geared towards
attaining absolute power and immortality.

Carol responds:
Thanks for an excellent first post. However, while I agree that Tom
Jr. doesn't possess normal human emotions (confirmed by JKR herself,
who has stated that he's never known or felt love and that he's
irredeemable--I can't remember whether she called him a psychopath or
a sociopath, but it was one or the other), I don't agree that he
killed his father to make his first Horcrux since 1) he's already
committed a murder 2) the other two Riddles were also murdered but the
soul bits created by their murders could not have been used for
Horcruxes at that time since Tom didn't have enough objects, and 3)
the conversation with Slughorn hadn't occurred yet and when it did, he
was wearing the ring, which he surely would not have done if it were
already a Horcrux.

Also, Tom Jr. went to the Gaunts looking for information on his
ancestors, not intent on murdering anyone. When Morfin inadvertently
informed Tom that the Muggle who lived in the big house on the hill
was his father, he Stupefied Morfin and went off to kill his father
(and ultimately his grandparents as well). Until that moment, he
didn't know where his "filthy Muggle father" lived or even whether he
was alive or dead. Tom Jr. took Morfin's ring as a souvenir, just as
he took the mouth organ and other objects as a child, but he didn't
yet know that a Horcrux was created by splitting your soul and
encasing the soul bit in an object (that information was supplied by
Slughorn, who in any case didn't tell him the incantation used to
encase the soul bit). 

That he killed his father for revenge, not to split his soul to create
a soul bit to encase in a Horcrux is made clear by Voldemort himself,
who tells Harry, "You see that house upon the hillside, Potter? My
father lived there. My mother, a witch who lived in this village, fell
in love with him. But he abandoned her when she told him what she was.
. . . He didn't like magic, my father. He left her and returned to his
Muggle parents before I was even born, Potter, and she died giving
birth to me, leaving me to be raised in a Muggle orphanage . . . but I
vowed to find him . . . I revenged myself upon him, that fool who gave
me his name, *Tom Riddle*" (GoF Am. ed. 646, ellipses and italics in
original).

This story turns out to be completely accurate, minus the part about
the love potion, which is only a deduction on Dumbledore's part based
on Merope's behavior in Bob Ogden's memory, which Voldemort never saw.

So the canon evidence we have so far indicates that your first
impression was right: Tom murdered his father for revenge. The HBP
memory, which I summarized earlier in this post, shows that he didn't
know where his father lived until Morfin stupidly provided that
information, as well as the information about Slytherin's locket. And
he says himself that he killed him for revenge. (Of course, he doesn't
mention that he later used the soul bit from his father's murder, and
probably those of his grandparents as well, to create Horcruxes, but
that doesn't make Horcrux creation the motive behind the murders.)

BTW, I'm not sure that "even Harry is capable of avenging his parents'
deaths by killing the person responsible," and I'm disturbed by
Dumbledore's reference to a desire for vengeance in HBP. After all,
Harry is supposed to destroy Voldemort through the power that
Voldemort knows not, Love. All that aside, I agree with you that
Voldemort is obsessed with obtaining power and immortality, but not
that he's incapable of *any* human emotion. We've seen him feeling
anger since SS/PS. He feels happiness, causing Harry's scar to hurt
just as much as it does when LV feels anger, in OoP when he hears some
good news (IIRC, a way to use Harry to get to the Prophecy). And we
see his desire for revenge against Lucius Malfoy via Draco in HBP. The
desire to murder the father who deserted his mother, leaving her to
die and Tom himself to be raised in a Muggle orphanage.

Kaz:
> I also believe that in giving Lily Potter chances to save herself he
was not showing mercy but merely conducting a sadistic social
experiment - would a loving mother sacrifice her child to save her own
skin? I think if Lily had done so then she would have been killed
anyway with LV taunting her with her sin as she died.
>
> In short, in the muggle world, he displays all the characteristics
adherant to Narcissists and Sociopaths.

Carol:
Again, I agree that Voldemort, even as a boy, is and was a sociopath,
becoming increasingly less human with every transformation. (Even
Hagrid thinks there wasn't enough human left in him for him to die at
GH.) But I don't think we have sufficient information to determine why
he told Lily to stand aside. It may have been nothing more than a
desire to have her move out of his way so that he could kill Harry,
much as he tells the boy Hagrid to stand aside so he can curse Aragog.
(Funny how he expects people to obey him and his will to trump theirs.
It's odd, though, that he didn't just curse her. I guess he figured
that she was an enemy, an Order member, and if she wouldn't listen,
she deserved to die. But I'm just guessing, too.) 

Other people have argued that LV had some use for Lily, forcing her to
use her talents for his side or something to do with Snape or
Wormtail, a la Wormtongue and Eowyn in LOTR (an idea I find
repugnant), but, again, everyone is just guessing at this point. So
I'll just say that I think Voldemort wanted to murder the Prophecy Boy
and insure his own immortality, and, secondarily, to use the soul bit
to create his last Horcrux if and when he found a suitable object (I
think he planned to steal the Sword of Gryffindor, which he had seen
in DD's office). Lily was simply in his way, so he offered her the
choice (some choice!) of saving herself at the expense of her child or
dying if she didn't get out of the way. He didn't realize, of course,
that her refusal to save her own life would save Harry's.

Kaz:
> LV, however, does not possess this ability [to feel human emotions].
He sees the ability to feel as a human weakness that deserves either
to be destroyed or, as is more often the case, not even worthy of this
- just an obvious failing to be exploited, mocked or derided.
>
> It was because of this that he underestimated the power of love and
because he still has not allowed himself to feel and therefore
understand emotions then he is continuing to make that same mistake.

Carol:
As I said before, he can feel anger, hatred, a desire for revenge,
even a perverted kind of happiness or triumph. But he can't feel love,
pity, compassion--the gentler emotions that make us human. It's those
emotions, not emotions in general, that he regards as weak, IMO. He's
a sociopath with the face of a snake, but he's not a robot.
>
Kaz:
> Basically my theory is, what if, having used Harry's blood and now
having it run through his own veins, it begins to infect him with
feelings he cannot understand or possibly deal with?
>
> After committing so many attrocities without a second though or
ounce of regret imagine how it would feel to begin to experience
empathy and guilt.....would an being such as LV be able to handle
this? I personally dont think so.
>
> IMO, it is already starting to become apparent that LV is beginning
to show signs of this "weakness". In OP Chapter 36 when LV possesses
Harry and tries to taunt DD into killing him, his reaction to Harry's
grief at losing Sirius, and basically welcoming death, is very telling;
>
> "And as Harry's heart filled with emotion, the creature's coils
loosened, the pain was gone...."
>
> Why would LV, who has only shown contempt for emotions thus far, be
suddenly afraid or incapable of dealing with them? Surely the LV of
the past would have exploited Harry's pain, seized on the chance of
fulfilling Harry's wish to die?
>
> My theory is that, on experiencing Harry's anguish of losing Sirius,
LV suddenly felt guilt and remorse....now THAT would scare him wouldnt
it? <snip>

Carol responds:
I don't think that LV feels regret or fear when Harry feels a burst of
love for Sirius. I think he feels pain, physical pain much like what
Harry had been experiencing. And for that reason, I think that Harry
will defeat him by forcing him to feel the pain of Love, either by
possessing him or forcing him to enter the room with the locked door.

Carol, pretty sure that Voldemort represents pure evil, the absence of
good (in contrast to Snape and Draco, in whom enough good remains to
make their redemption both possible and probable)