Bathroom Scene - A Different Perspective/ Now with LONG quote.

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 165135

> > Alla:
> > 
> > Pretend? I would say that assumption that Harry was horrified 
that 
> > he would become insane after knowing what he was tortured at 
> > Graveyard and what happened to Longbottoms has more canon 
support 
> > that he was not.
> > 
> 
> Julie:
> This seems a bit ingenuous to me. Where does it ever seem that
> Harry is the least bit afraid of Draco? And why would Harry
> equate Draco, whom he's just found crying in the bathroom,
> with Voldemort or the Death Eaters who tortured the Longbottoms?
> Voldemort and the DEs acted with cold intent in those two
> scenarios, while Draco is acting off pure emotion, just as
> Harry was when he tried to crucio Bellatrix in the DoM. 
> And this is Draco, who when he had Harry completely in his
> power earlier in the year, stomped on Harry's face and broke
> his nose ("That's for my father"). Ooh, that's some real nasty 
> vengeance there, Draco...
> 
> I think Harry knew Draco's intent was to temporarily hurt him,
> not to drive him insane or kill him. And Harry attacked right
> back, understandably not wanting to experience that hurt, and
> wanting to turn Draco's attempt to hurt back on him. Only it
> turned out that Harry's intent and what actually happened 
> weren't in sync. That's what threw him, what scared him, and
> what he sincerely regretted. And good for him.
>

Alla:

Sorry, Julie. It does not seem one bit ingenuious to me.**Never** 
before Draco attacked Harry with Unforgiveable ( stakes went up for 
him, just as he never before planned assasination)

As to why Harry would equate Draco with Voldemort? Eh, because they 
threw the same Unforgiveable? Is Harry supposed to know that in the 
hands of Draco the Unforgiveable would not have that nasty effect?

And act accordingly?

But I figured that since we had been in the bathroom for several 
days now, I may as well quote the scene ( it is not exactly to 
counter anything you said, just good place to do so for me)


""A few days before the match against Ravenclaw, Harry found himself 
walking down to dinner alone from the common room, Ron having rushed 
off into a nearby bathroom to throw up yet again, and Hermione 
having dashed off to see Professor Vector about a mistake she 
thought she might have made in her last Arithmancy essay. More out 
of habit than anything, Harry made his usual detour along the 
seventh-floor corridor, checking the Marauder's Map as he went. For 
a moment he could not find Malfoy anywhere and assumed he must 
indeed be inside the Room of Requirement again, but then he saw 
Malfoy's tiny, labeled dot standing in a boys' bathroom on the floor 
below, accompanied, not by Crabbe or Goyle, but by Moaning Myrtle. 

Harry only stopped staring at this unlikely coupling when he walked 
right into a suit of armor. The loud crash brought him out of his 
reverie; hurrying from the scene lest Filch turn up, he dashed down 
the marble staircase and along the passageway below. Outside the 
bathroom, he pressed his ear against the door. He could not hear 
anything. He very quietly pushed the door open. 

Draco Malfoy was standing with his back to the door, his hands 
clutching either side of the sink, his white-blond head bowed. 

"Don't," crooned Moaning Myrtle's voice from one of the 
cubicles. "Don't. . . tell me what's wrong ... I can help 
you. . . ." 

"No one can help me," said Malfoy. His whole body was shaking. "I 
can't do it. ... I can't. ... It won't work . . . and unless 1 do it 
soon ... he says he'll kill me. ..." 

And Harry realized, with a shock so huge it seemed to root him to 
the spot, that Malfoy was crying — actually crying — tears streaming 
down his pale face into the grimy basin. Malfoy gasped and gulped 
and then, with a great shudder, looked up into flu-cracked mirror 
and saw Harry staring at him over his shoulder. 

Malfoy wheeled around, drawing his wand. Instinctively, Harry pulled 
out his own. Malfoy's hex missed Harry by inches, shattering the 
lamp on the wall beside him; Harry threw himself sideways, thought 
Levicorpus! and flicked his wand, but Malfoy blocked the jinx and 
raised his wand for another — 

"No! No! Stop it!" squealed Moaning Myrtle, her voice echoing loudly 
around the tiled room. "Stop! STOP!" 

There was a loud bang and the bin behind Harry exploded; Harry 
attempted a Leg-Locker Curse that backfired off the wall be­hind 
Malfoy's ear and smashed the cistern beneath Moaning Myr­tle, who 
screamed loudly; water poured everywhere and Harry slipped as 
Malfoy, his face contorted, cried, "Cruci —" 

"SECTUMSEMPRA!" bellowed Harry from the floor, waving his wand 
wildly. 

Blood spurted from Malfoy's face and chest as though he had been 
slashed with an invisible sword. He staggered backward and collapsed 
onto the waterlogged floor with a great splash, his wand falling 
from his limp right hand. 

"No —" gasped Harry. 

Slipping and staggering, Harry got to his feet and plunged toward 
Malfoy, whose face was now shining scarlet, his white hands 
scrabbling at his blood-soaked chest. 

"No — I didn't —" 

Harry did not know what he was saying; he fell to his knees beside 
Malfoy, who was shaking uncontrollably in a pool of his own blood. 
Moaning Myrtle let out a deafening scream: "MURDER! MURDER IN THE 
BATHROOM! MURDER!" 

The door banged open behind Harry and he looked up, terrified: Snape 
had burst into the room, his face livid. Pushing Harry roughly 
aside, he knelt over Malfoy, drew his wand, and traced it over the 
deep wounds Harry's curse had made, muttering an incantation that 
sounded almost like song. The flow of blood seemed to ease; Snape 
wiped the residue from Malfoy's face and repeated his spell. Now the 
wounds seemed to be knitting. 

Harry was still watching, horrified by what he had done, barely 
aware that he too was soaked in blood and water. Moaning Myrtle was 
still sobbing and wailing overhead. When Snape had performed his 
countercurse for the third time, he half-lifted Malfoy into a 
standing position. 

"You need the hospital wing. There may be a certain amount of 
scarring, but if you take dittany immediately we might avoid even 
that.. . . Come...." 

He supported Malfoy across the bathroom, turning at the door to say 
in a voice of cold fury, "And you, Potter . . . You wait here for 
me." 

It did not occur to Harry for a second to disobey. He stood up 
slowly, shaking, and looked down at the wet floor. There were 
bloodstains floating like crimson flowers across its surface. He 
could not even find it in himself to tell Moaning Myrtle to be 
quiet, as she continued to wail and sob with increasingly evident 
enjoyment. 

Snape returned ten minutes later. He stepped into the bathroom and 
closed the door behind him. 

"Go," he said to Myrtle, and she swooped back into her toilet at 
once, leaving a ringing silence behind her. 

"I didn't mean it to happen," said Harry at once. His voice echoed 
in the cold, watery space. "I didn't know what that spell did." 

But Snape ignored this. "Apparently I underestimated you, Potter," 
he said quietly. "Who would have thought you knew such Dark Magic? 
Who taught you that spell?" 

"I — read about it somewhere." 

"Where?" 

"It was — a library book," Harry invented wildly. "I can't remember 
what it was call —" 

"Liar," said Snape. Harry's throat went dry. He knew what Snape was 
going to do and he had never been able to prevent it. ... 

The bathroom seemed to shimmer before his eyes; he struggled to 
block out all thought, but try as he might, the Half-Blood Prince's 
copy of Advanced Potion-Making swam hazily to the forefront of his 
mind. 

And then he was staring at Snape again, in the midst of this 
wrecked, soaked bathroom. He stared into Snape's black eyes, hoping 
against hope that Snape had not seen what he feared, but — 

"Bring me your schoolbag," said Snape softly, "and all of your 
schoolbooks. All of them. Bring them to me here. Now!" 

There was no point arguing. Harry turned at once and splashed 

out of the bathroom. Once in the corridor, he broke into a run 
toward Gryffindor Tower. Most people were walking the other way; 
they gaped at him, drenched in water and blood, but he answered none 
of the questions fired at him as he ran past. "

> Magpie:
> I actually don't consider this as hard and fast as everyone seems 
to think. 
> We certainly hear them introduced this way, and they are serious 
curses. But 
> we've seen them thrown all over the place, including by Harry 
himself, so I 
> just don't see how we can think of them as a quick trip to 
Azkaban. Of 
> course, any trip to Azkaban depends on actually completing it, 
which Draco 
> didn't do, and it's possible he wouldn't have been any more able 
to complete 
> it than Harry.

Alla:

Thrown all over the place? I seem to remember Harry thrown them 
twice before that bathroom scene with no adults AFAIR knowing about 
it. For all I know if anybody knew about it, Harry would have ended 
up just there.

We know that Aurors got special permission to perform them. Hardly 
seems like thrown all over the place to me.

Magpie:
> However that is *not* a statement that's supposed to mean that 
Harry's own 
> curse is less appropriate. Harry thought he was having one thrown 
at him, so 
> his reaction counts as a reaction to true Crucio regardless.

Alla:

Harry **thought** he was having true Crucio thrown at him? Harry did 
not let him finish the way I read it, so as far as I know Harry has 
himself to thank for that he responded when Draco was still saying 
the spell and shut him up right away.

 
> Magpie:
<SNIP>
 Only the Longbottoms sufferred longterm damage from 
> Crucio, and that was an extended session, much as Obliviate charms 
are used 
> frequently and are even considered harmless, but cause brain 
damage if used 
> too much over a short time.
> 
> But again, it's still understood that Harry pulled out his own gun 
in 
> response to Draco pulling his out and starting to fire first.

Alla:

Since Longbottoms are the **only** victims of longterm Crucio I seem 
to remember in canon, I'd say they are supposed to be an example of 
what happens, not an exception to the rule. IMO of course.

 
> Magpie:
<SNIP>
> So Harry's intent was to pull out a gun in response to a gun-I 
agree. (Not 
> pull out a bullet proof vest.) But some of us aren't focused on 
whose fault 
> it is. We're interested in the idea of Harry pulling out that gun 
in 
> self-defense. Or actually, when I think about it, I think that's 
already 
> getting too far back into "don't look at what Harry did!" Because 
of course, 
> Sectumsempra turns out to be a big, nasty surprise that is deadly, 
while 
> Crucio is about causing great temporary pain. Harry has had 
Voldemort 
> himself cast it on him and gotten up to fight. Sectumsempra almost 
ended in 
> death.
<SNIP>

Alla:

So, what does that mean if not underrestimating the effects of 
Unforgiveable? Thanks to Harry, Draco Crucio ended up in nothing, it 
could have ended totally different.

Oh, and yes Harry still fought Voldemort after the Crucio. Harry is 
also the only person who is still living after AK. I hardly think 
that is the reason to think that AK effects are less deadly now.


JMO,

Alla.