Bathroom Scene - A Different Perspective.

[eviljunglechicken]

No: HPFGUIDX 165188

colebiancardi:
> > yes, as Slughorn praised Harry. But an honest student would have
> > given credit  where credit was due. An honest student would have
> > cited references to  where they got that knowledge. If I write an
> > essay, I better cite all my  references or I will flunk that
> > course, no matter how brilliant my essay  is. Because my essay
> > really isn't mine as I used other sources. Harry  wasn't an
> > honest student here. He took credit for someone else's work and
> > that is why Snape called him a liar & a cheat. Snape somehow
> > *knew*, in my opinion, that Harry was not the potions genuis that
> > Slughorn and the  rest of the school (Ron & Hermione excluded)
> > think he is and that Harry  was using the HBP's book.

eviljunglechicken:
I agree.  Slughorn believes Harry's work in potions is Harry's own
creation and Harry does nothing to dissuade him of that notion.

Plagiarism is defined as the following:

noun 1. the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and
thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's
own original work.
2. something used and represented in this manner.
the act of plagiarizing; taking someone's words or ideas as if they
were your own

Harry is taking credit for Snape's work.  Why doesn't Harry admit he
found notes by the Halfblood Prince which improves upon potions as
they are being taught with the sources available to the other
students?  Not doing so is dishonest.  It is unethical.


Vexingconfection:
> He did not take credit for any work professionally. He did not know
> who the Prince was.

Eviljunglechicken:
While I was in school and not yet a professional, I was still
expected to cite my sources.  I was not expected to claim someone
else's ideas as my own.  He did not know who the Prince was so he
could not cite him as anything except that, but he knew the work was
that of the Halfblood Prince. Of all the authors I have cited in my
life, I didn't know the vast majority of them either.  I knew them as
names which may or may not have been pen names for some.

Not knowing the Halfblood Prince was actually Severus Snape does not
make his notes Harry's own ideas.


Vexingconfection:
> Remember, he did not even want to buy the same broom as Draco-
> wanted nothing the other thought valuable. He had less regard for
> Snape knowing his history, so I doubt he would have used the book
> to the extent he did.

Eviljunglechicken:
I'm not sure what your point is here.  Even if he would not have used
the book if he knew the author of the notes, the matter in question
is claiming this Halfblood Prince's ideas as his own ideas.


Vexingconfection:
> A better question would be, if Snape knew there were easier and
> more gainful methods to produce the same or better results in the
> spells or potions he was teaching, why did he not instruct his
> students on their use?  What was Snape's motivation to not give his
> students the fullest and most useful understanding and application
> of the craft?

Eviljunglechicken:
I don't know that I would say it's a better question. It is a
different question and perhaps one which more people would find
interesting to explore.


Vexingconfection:
> While we may make allowances for presidents and famous celebrities
> for perjury and plagiarization...

Eviljunglechicken:
Isn't the pertinent point being that these cases are perjury and
plagiarism?  Lying and taking credit for someone else's work.


Vexingconfection:
> a 15(?) yr old orphaned wizard who comes from a loveless home and
> is facing the Dark lord is held to higher standards.

Eviljunglechicken:
I don't know how he is being held to a higher standard.  If a
president takes credit for someone else's work or if I do or if Harry
Potter does, it is still plagiarism.  It doesn't magically not become
its definition based on who is committing the act.

I'm not arguing the "punishment" for this dishonesty is or can be
handed out unevenly.

Most of the responses to this question have only been the
consideration of what was Harry guilty of, not what his "sentence"
should be.


Vexingconfection:
> I think he acted within his character, reckless and youthful but
> not nefariously. I think JKR has been true to her character.

Eviljunglechicken:
I don't think he acted extremely wickedly either.  But he did act
dishonestly as well as reckless.

Eviljunglechicken

ELFY NOTE:  Eviljunglechicken, could you please contact the list elves at the owner address?  The email address we have for your account is bouncing messages.  The owner address is HPforGrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com  Thanks!  -- Shorty Elf