Bathroom Scene - A Different Perspective.

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 165189

Vexingconfection
> Pardon my ignorance on this and understand-ignorance never equates 
to an absence of opinion as much as one might appreciate that to 
be.... Harry did not steal work as much as perform his own 
experimentation. He demonstrated both irreverence and 
irresponsibility but not in my opinion dishonesty. IMO he was using 
the potions class to further his investigation into the HBP's book. 
He did not take credit for any work professionally. He did not know 
who the Prince was. 

Magpie:
It's made pretty clear in canon that he is being dishonest and not 
experimenting in the way you're using it--though I understand the 
obvious question of what's so bad about using better instructions in 
Potions. The entire class is working with one set of instructions 
that are inferior. Harry has a different set of instructions that 
make his Potions come out better. I don't know whether work in 
school is considered professional, but this kind of thing is 
certainly against the rules in school. It's *worse* to cheat 
professionally in terms of the consequences, but you're doing the 
same thing.

Slughorn thinks that Harry is just particularly good at making the 
same instructions as everyone else work better, and of course that's 
not true. Harry has no idea why the Prince's instructions work 
better. He has none of the instinctive "grasp" of Potions the Prince 
does, which is what Slughorn is crediting him for. Even his trick 
with the bezoar isn't his own--and Harry himself always knows this. 
That's why he thinks of the Prince as almost a friend whispering 
answers in his ear. 

That is where Harry is being dishonest and Ron and Hermione 
certainly know it. Everyone else just knows he must be doing 
something underhanded because he's not that good in Potions. 

It's not the best way to show cheating since Harry is following a 
recipe just like everyone else, but JKR doesn't seem to be making 
any bones about that being what she's *trying* to show. I mean, come 
on--Harry a Potions genius? When he doesn't even understand the law 
he's supposed to be working on and just takes a chance on using 
somebody else's joke. He's putting himself across as something he 
isn't and he knows it.

Vexingconfection 
> Remember, he did not even want to buy the same broom as Draco-
wanted nothing the other thought valuable. He had less regard for 
Snape knowing his history, so I doubt he would have used the book to 
the extent he did. A better question would be, if Snape knew there 
were easier and more gainful methods to produce the same or better 
results in the spells or potions he was teaching, why did he not 
instruct his students on their use?  What was Snape's motivation to 
not give his students the fullest and most useful understanding and 
application of the craft? If it was because they were not MoM 
approved, he could 
> have had them approved or gone through the Headmaster to instruct 
them. I am sure we have all had classes on evolution in which the 
teacher first issues the statement or disclaimer, "This may or may 
not be in your belief system but it's part of science and has not 
yet been proved or disproved. It is here for evaluation." Many of 
the notations made were simply how to extract juices. These were 
simple tricks that could have been taught.  

Magpie:
Not sure what you're getting at here. There's no reason to think 
Snape doesn't teach the kids the best methods, since in *his* class 
the people who do the best are the ones that understand Potions the 
best. People like Hermione who are also far more equipped to tackle 
the assignments in this class. The reason Harry isn't able to 
approach his NEWT assignments at their level is a combination of his 
not having the same grasp they do of the subject, a grasp they (and 
the rest of the class) seems to have gotten from their classes. 
Harry isn't awful at Potions, but we know that some people in the 
class are ahead of him. In his class everyone works from the same 
instructions--Harry intentionally keeps the better instructions for 
himself in sixth year so that he can appear to be better at the 
subject than he is.



Vexingconfection: 
> Here is something else I will mention and hopefully not bring so 
much criticism that you toss me from your group. Martin Luther King, 
Jr., plagiarized most of his work while in college. It's a known 
fact.  While we may make allowances for presidents and famous 
celebrities for perjury and plagiarization... a 15(?) yr old 
orphaned wizard who comes from a loveless home and is facing the 
Dark lord is held to 
> higher standards. I think he acted within his character, reckless 
and 
> youthful but not nefariously. I think JKR has been true to her 
character.

Magpie:
I'm not sure why you would worry you'd be tossed from the group for 
telling us MLK plagiarized, but I don't know what you mean about 
making allowances. Are you suggesting that Harry is such a woobie 
it's mean to call a spade a spade when it comes to his cheating? Or 
that it's not cheating when people lik MLK Jr. do it? I don't see 
anybody accusing JKR of not being true to her character here, 
they're arguing that using somebody else's work to pretend you have 
a grasp of Potions when you don't is obviously dishonest. Not only 
does Harry seem to see himself as being given an unfair advantage in 
the class it's hard to imagine he'd be okay if that unfair advantage 
went to someone else. Nobody else in the class is too happy with it. 
If Harry were competing on an even playing field he'd have the same 
place in the class he always has--not at the top.  

-m