Bathroom Scene - A Different Perspective.

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 165193

> Neri:
> Where is the canon that Hermione and Draco get better marks in 
Snape's
> class than in Slughorn's? And more to the point, where is the canon
> that they learn better or produce better potions in Snape's lessons
> than in Slughorn's?

Magpie:
When do you remember Hermione so frazzled in Snape's class? Hermione 
and Draco both get O's on their OWLS and Harry gets an E. The 
lessons in NEWT level are harder, so it's not unusual that they are 
finding it more difficult. The difference in Slughorn's class is 
that Harry is suddenly progressing ahead of the rest of the class, 
because for the first time everyone else is working with bad 
instructions. 

Neri:> 
> On the contrary, it seems to me that it is Harry who is doing 
better
> in Slughorn's class, not the rest of the class doing worse. It
> definitely sounds like Harry was getting much better results, not 
only
> in respect to the other students, but also in respect to his own 
past
> results in Snape's class. This implies that it was Harry who was
> suddenly using improved instructions, and not the other students
> suddenly using degraded instructions. I conclude that Snape wasn't
> including his own tips in his directions to the students.

Magpie:
I thought the exact opposite was obvious. Suddenly Hermione is 
struggling and Harry is breezing through, even though Hermione still 
understands the material better than Harry does. Harry was suddenly 
using instructions better than the ones being used by the rest of 
the class. Instructions he was also paying more attention to than he 
did to Snape--remember there are times when Harry's Potion turns out 
badly where Snape points to the instructions and Harry has done them 
wrong--unlike Hermione in the same class. So as far as I can see, 
the lesson has always been to follow Snape's instructions, which 
Harry sometimes doesn't because he's distracted and, perhaps, he 
doesn't have as instinctive a grasp of the subject that he can be 
distracted and still get it right. He's reliant on following the 
instructions to the letter--which is fine, but explains why he does 
so much better than the class when he's got better instructions he's 
more eager to follow correctly.
 
> 
> Neri:
> Crediting a source in a written assay is usually a very different
> thing from using a manual or supportive material in a hands-on
> laboratory lesson. As an instructor in a laboratory course in the
> university I was always impressed when seeing a student doing lab 
work
> with the help of such material, especially if that material was not
> officially recommended (because that would mean that the student  
had
> probably bothered to research for it in the library or even buy it.
> Most students only use the official lab manual and many don't 
bother
> to read even that). Granted, I'd be slightly less impressed if that
> student used, say, comments written by another student of that same
> course in a previous year (because it probably means he/she had 
got it
> by chance or good connections, and hadn't actually bothered to 
search
> the library for it) but I certainly wouldn't object, as long as it
> contained good and safe instructions, and I'd certainly never 
think of
> demanding that the source would be credited.

Magpie:
Yes, and in this case the notes and work aren't the issue. The issue 
is Harry working at an unfair advantage to the rest of the class, 
which he himself never denies he is doing, and allowing the teacher 
to believe that his better results are due to his own instinctive 
changes in the Potions. It's not a federal crime, but there's no way 
around the fact that Harry is intentionally lying about just 
figuring things out rather than getting them from someone else.

Neri: 
> These nuances depend a lot on culture, institution, faculty and
> subject. We don't know what the relevant rules in Hogwarts are. But
> Hermione probably knows, and she dislikes the Prince from the
> beginning, and yet AFAIK she never tells Harry that he's breaking 
any
> rules, or that he might get a detention or be expelled if he's 
caught.
> Yes, I think Harry wasn't exactly playing fair when achieving his 
fame
> based on material he never told his teacher or other students 
about.
> But then, academic life at Hogwarts don't strike me as very fair to
> begin with. It was also not fair that Harry was picked on by his
> potions teacher for five years, but do we ever hear any objections
> from any staff member?

Magpie:
No, she doesn't tell him he's breaking rules. But she obviously 
thinks he's getting credit for things he doesn't deserve credit for, 
which is true. I'm a little surprised that something that Harry 
himself always recognizes as dishonest is getting defended by stuff 
like "Well, who cares about classes being fair?" or "Why's it 
important to learn the subject in school?" It's not fair that Harry 
had a mean teacher for 5 years that didn't like him so he's getting 
payback through getting credit for being a Potions whiz when he 
isn't in return? Since when do those things go together? (And if 
that is what he is doing, I expect Snape's debt is paid in full now 
and nobody can consider him unfair anymore.)   

-m