Voldermort learning the prophecy?

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 165210

SSSusan earlier:
> I'm not sure quite WHY I don't think we're going to see a return to
> his quest to get his hands on the prophecy, but I just don't "feel"
> it coming. (Not that that means much that *I'm* not feeling a
> premonition, heh.) Maybe it's just the way JKR dropped the whole
> thing for the entire 6th book? Maybe it's that I can't imagine how
> he wouldn't figure it all out (that it's about Love) if he does hear
> it. Maybe it's that we have -- JKR has caused us to -- switched our
> focus towards those horcruxes and wondering so much about how that's
> all going to play out.
> 
> But it would certainly be interesting if Voldy has been working on a
> long-range plan... getting DD out of his way, getting to Trelawney,
> maybe even retrieving a Horschow hidden at Hogwarts, as you
> mentioned.
> <SNIP>

 
Jeremiah responded:
<snip> 
> This, I am assuming, means that everyone else is assuming that the 
> prophecy was destroyed and will never be heard again. the Death 
> Eaters are under the assumption that they have "failed" to get the 
> prophecy for LV and the plan would be concidered a bust.
> 
> However, one can assume that Snape informed LV (before 
> his "conversion" ... about the Seer (Trelawney) who made the 
> prophecy. This would be a very good reason for DD, in OotP, 
> insisting that she stay on as a resident in the castle and for DD's 
> insistance that she stay as a professor and share the teaching 
> duties with Firenz. She cannot leave the protection of Hogwarts and
> DD (but now that he's gone this might change her protection).

SSSusan:
I'm with you so far, yes.  The DEs very well might have assumed it 
was a big "Whoops, we mucked that up and it's all over now!"  And I 
agree that DD wanted Trelawney to stay in large part for her own 
protection.


Jeremiah: 
> Yes, going after her would be a fantastic idea but, as we know from 
> PoA, she doesn't recall these trance-like-states. I believe she is 
> totally unaware of her "gift" and I think it would be very 
> difficult for her to be tortured to tell LV or his Death Eaters 
> about it. Since she has no memory I would assume it cannot be 
> extracted, since eh has not "thoughts" about it I would also
> think you cannot look into her head and see anything about it. If 
> she is tortured she will be killed. Sadly, IMO, that is what would 
> happen. LV's attempts to find out about the prophecy are futile and 
> that is his part of his quest for power, which is his hubris.

SSSusan:
Now *this* is the part that gets me excited about the discussion, 
Jeremiah!  Here's why.  

You're correct that Trelawney has no real conscious recollection of 
her trance-like states.  However, we know that they're *in* there, 
right?  It's true that torturing her and saying, "Tell me or I'll 
Crucio you!" wouldn't do any good, because she isn't consciously 
holding back information.

OTOH, she *does* have a recollection of *part* of the night that she 
delivered The Prophecy (the main one, I mean, at the Hog's Head).  
What she does remember is Snape being in the hallway and being 
removed from the premises.

"So what?" one might ask.  Well, one of the things we learned about 
how the pensieve works is that a memory placed in the pensieve 
is "more complete" than what is conscious to the person from whom it 
came.  Remember how Harry was able to "walk around" inside Snape's 
memory?  Could follow James & Lupin & Sirius & Peter and overhear the 
things they said that Snape did *not* actually hear?  

I've long believed that, because Harry remembers tiny, sensory bits 
of the night of the GH attack -- the flash of green light, his 
mother's scream -- that that means there *is* a memory of that night 
which could be extracted and "walked around in."  I've always thought 
this might be the way Harry finally discovers details about what 
happened that night.

Could the same be true for Trelawney?  Since she remembers 
*something* about the night she delivered The Prophecy -- even if 
it's just the interruption part -- could someone extract that memory, 
place it in a pensieve, and "walk around in it," to discover more 
about the scene, even hear the entire prophecy?

If that's true, and if Voldy knows it's true, then he might go after 
Trelawney and not torture her into telling what she knows (not much) 
but find a way to extract the memory in order to find out what 
she "knows" without consciously knowing it.


Jeremiah:
> SSSusan, I see what you mean by dropping the prohecy plot-line in 
> HBP, however, I think JKR was furthering Trelawney (and, in effect, 
> the truth about the prophecy) by focusing on 2 encounters between 
> Harry and Trelawney. (Both involving Sherry and babbling) but her 
> accuracy is pretty good. She detects Harry with her cards and sees 
> the "Lighting Struck Tower." Even though she's not very good at 
> being precise, she'd got something going on and I think JKR was 
> sacrificing the prophecy sub-plot and supplanting it with 
> Trelawney's ability to "detect" (that's the only way I can describe 
> it because she's not very precise) the future.
<snip>
> ...Trelawney claims she repeatedly told DD about the readings (with
> the Lightning Struck Tower and his impending doom) and he didn't 
> put any faith in them but he still ended up pon the top of a tower 
> and died. ...I do think that Trelawney's Prophecy should not be 
> ignored to any extent by Harry or the others. it's decision-time 
> for Harry. Does he find Trelawney to be trustworthy and does he 
> recognize her abilities? 

SSSusan:
Very interesting!  It does seem that JKR went to pains to show us how 
Trelawney was sort of predicting accurately.  I like your 
word "detect" rather than actually "predicting;" it fits.  So the 
question, as you're suggesting, is:  Why did JKR do that *after* the 
prophecy plot line seemed to have been dropped?  Maybe it *was* to 
keep us thinking about Trelawney and how she shouldn't be ignored.

Interesting! :)

Siriusly Snapey Susan