Was Harry cheating at Potions (was:Re: Bathroom Scene - A Different Perspective.

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 165241

Mike:
Looking for a place to plug into this thread. This seems as good as 
any.

:: Reaches for his old AF Academy Yearbook to look up who was his 
honor rep ::

I to went to a college that had an Honor Code. <still does I suppose> 
One of the adjuncts of that code required each of us to purchase new 
textbooks for every class. <your tax dollars at work> This was so 
none of us could get an unfair advantage via a used book with notes, 
highlighting, etc. Yet, it was perfectly fair for us to consult notes 
from previous students. There was even a cadet academic advisor, in 
each cadet squadron, who had a storehouse of old notes that anyone 
was free to access. This disparrate attitude towards the cheating 
part of the code always confused me. And yet, I challenge anyone to 
find an institution with a stricter code of conduct or more strident 
approach to same than the service academies.

:: Mike plucks a hair from his head and gets out his sharp knife ::

I bring this up to point out that even the strictest institutions 
have a hard time defining "cheating". Hogwarts does not have an honor 
code. It is clear in canon that any student can chose to buy a used 
school book. I don't think any of the Weasleys had a new book. 
(Except, of course, in Lockhart's year when there were none 
available) So the fact that Harry got a better used book than anyone 
else, in and of itself, does not constitute cheating. 

Ron got a used book from the same cupboard, was he cheating? What if 
Ron's had additional notes that proved to be worse than the text's 
instructions, would Ron be cheating if he used those notes? Or is it 
only if your book has notes that improve your performance are you 
considered a cheater? IOW, just because Harry's used book was more 
useful than Ron's does not make Harry a cheater. And it is clearly 
legal for Harry or anybody to have a used book.

[Quick aside here; does anybody besides me think that Snape continued 
to mark up that book well after his school days? When Harry makes the 
comment that he "Shouldn't have left his old book in the bottom of 
that cupboard", I immediately thought, 'that's cause he continued to 
use it'. I speculate that Snape made most of his potions improvements 
post school days. Just a feeling ;-)]

Is Harry disengenuous by not coming clean to Slughorn? In a perfect 
world, which Hogwarts clearly is not, sure Harry could have fessed 
up. Let me ask this in a different way. What's Harry's motivation to 
reveal his sudden potions brilliance? Besides telling Hermione and 
Ron, of course. Altruism? He tried to share with Hermione and Ron, it 
didn't work. Should he stand up in class and announce that his text 
book has notes which improve on the standard text? Make copies of his 
book and distribute them to all the other kids in class? What course 
of action would appeal to our senses while not usurping Slughorn's 
authority? Remember, Slughorn assigned that text book, especially if 
you position yourself with those that consider the assigned text as 
inferior.

I suppose one could say that the honorable thing would be for Harry 
to turn in the HBP's copy and proceed with his new book from Flourish 
and Blotts. I'm not one that agrees that this is either required or 
reasonable to satisfy my sensibilities. Others mileage may vary. I 
just don't see Harry as cheating by using this book. BTW, when did we 
allow Snape's opinion to become our moral compass? Has anyone else 
accused Harry of being a cheat besides Snape? I agree with Neri, not 
even Hermione accuses Harry of cheating. Why do we? On Snape's word? 
Of course Snape doesn't have an axe to grind, does he?

Speaking of Hermione <eg>, I didn't notice her having a problem with 
helping out the boys herself. In fact, doesn't she help both Harry 
and Neville in *Potions*? Doesn't she as much as finish both Ron's 
and Harry's homework many times throughout the series? Why is it that 
only now, when Harry has someone (or something) else to help him that 
she gets indignant about Harry getting help? Or could it possibly be 
that Hermione just doesn't like Harry outperforming her in class? And 
she hasn't exactly been the shining moralistic visage in HBP, has 
she? Hermione is quick to point out an injustice when it's against 
her, but not so quick to practice what she preaches.

Although an aptitude in potions is undoubtedly an asset if not a 
downright requirement to be an Auror, I'm hesitant to assign the same 
need in the upcoming battle with Voldemort. And though Harry doesn't 
seem to be grasping the principles of potion making, maybe all he 
would need as a prospective Auror is a good guide. He does know where 
he can get that. Maybe that's good enough. I'm doubting any need as 
an Auror to pull up in the hinterland during a hot pursuit and have 
to brew up some antidote. Ingredients might be scarce. :-) But if he 
could carry around a portable kit that also contained several 
instructions particular to the ingredients available ... maybe 
that'll work?!

****************************************************************

On to a few responses.

> Betsy Hp:
> But if you learn a chess move from the book, get praised for it, 
> and give the impression that you made that move up yourself, you're 
> a liar at the very least.  Which is why Harry felt guilty about 
> passing the Prince's knowledge off as his own, and why he justified 
> himself by tying it in with saving the world.

Mike:
Well ... sure if you lie you're a liar. But a chess analogy is 
difficult to accomplish, since the chess pieces move the same for 
everyone. But potion ingredients and brewing method aren't the same 
for everyone. 

More to the point, when do you feel Harry lied to someone about using 
the "Prince's" methods. I'm gonna put a caveat on you here <eg>. You 
can't use lying by ommission, because that presupposes that Harry has 
a duty to disclose his use of the book's notes. I'm asking where does 
Harry out and out lie about coming up with these innovations himself. 
The closest I think he comes is after Sluggy praises Harry's Elixor 
to Induce Euphoria with another of his Lily's genes references. Harry 
doesn't correct him, he just says something like 'yeah, I suppose'. 
This is a close one. But since I don't think Harry is cheating by 
using the Prince's book, I'm gonna give him a pass here. You may not.


> > >>Ronin: 
> > I don't think Harry was cheating at all.
> > <snip>
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Why, then, does Harry feel guilty?

Mike:
Ahh, the guilt complex. A couple of points: After that first day when 
he won the Felix, I think Harry stopped feeling guilty about the 
Prince's help. Secondly, it seems Harry only feels a twinge of guilt 
towards Hermione. I'm not sure that isn't out of loyalty as well as 
him remembering all those times Hermione helped him. He is also well 
aware that Hermione is a better student than him and that could 
contribute to his feeling that he has somehow betrayed her by beating 
her. Not sure if that made sense :-/ 

Can I ask one more question: Do you and if so why do you think Harry 
should feel guilty? Cause I don't think he should. He wasn't cheating 
by Hogwarts rules and I don't think he lied to anyone but Snape, post-
Draco-slicing.

Mike, finally finishing this post, gotta learn to type faster :(