Lying vs Murder (was:Re: On lying and cheating/ Killing DD)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 165468

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <SNIP>
> > Did Snape behave badly on the Tower, even in a minor way?  It     
> > will depend on if he actually killed Dumbledore.  And even then, 
> > I see a viable reason for him to have done so, though that       
> > doesn't change the action, of course.  (I'm assuming DDM.  If    
> > Snape is actually ESE, then that changes everything.)
> > On the other hand, Harry did lie (by omission, but that's still 
> > lying) about his potion knowledge.  And by lying about his 
> > knowledge he did cheat.  It was a minor thing.  I'm not expecting 
> > JKR to kill him off because of it.  But it was also a petty      
> > thing.  It didn't gain anything for the war effort.  Which makes 
> > it worse, IMO. Because it's just a way for Harry to slide by,    
> > rather than a choice to do a wrong thing for a real gain.  Does   
> > that make sense?

> >>Alla:
> I am afraid it does not make sense for me. You are in essense      
> saying that for you Harry using Prince potions book and passing     
> Prince work as  his own is a worse offense than killing a human    
> being, are you not?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Gosh, is that what I was saying?  

In general, of course murder is worse than lying.  And getting a bit 
more specific, murder is worse than Harry lying about his potions 
knowledge.  But when you get down to the very specific case of DDM!
Snape killing Dumbledore on the Tower and Harry lying about his 
potions knowledge, was what Harry did worse than what DDM!Snape did?

To reach a conclusion let's contemplate the following three questions:

(1)  What good is gained?
Harry's lie causes Slughorn to think Harry is a potions genius.  But 
the Order doesn't benefit from that.  Slughorn already liked Harry and
the fight against Voldemort is not helped by Harry *appearing* to be 
a potions genius.  

By killing Dumbledore, DDM!Snape sets himself up as totally loyal to 
Voldemort.  He has earned Voldemort's trust and is in a better 
position to help bring Voldemort down.
  
Answer: Good is not gained by Harry's lie.  Good is gained by DDM!
Snape's murder.   

(2)  Who, if anyone, benefits?
Harry's actions do not benefit Harry since his lie prevents him from 
actually learning potions.  Harry has been morally compromised 
because he is lying.  The note about the Bezoar saves Ron's life, but 
that was not dependent on Harry lying about his potion knowledge.

DDM!Snape's actions benefit the Order by giving them a better placed 
spy.  But at the same time they morally compromise DDM!Snape because 
he has killed.

Answer: Harry's actions benefit no one.  DDM!Snape's actions do not 
benefit DDM!Snape but they do benefit the Order. 

(3)  Was the action thought out?
Harry doesn't think about what he is doing. He uses the Prince's 
knowledge and passes it off as his own because it was made easy for 
him to do so.

DDM!Snape has contemplated the costs and benefits of committing 
murder to further the Order's cause.  He has discussed same with 
Dumbledore himself.

Answer: Harry is acting thoughtlessly.  DDM!Snape is acting 
thoughtfully.

Conclusion:
While Harry is acting in a selfish and thoughtless manner to the 
benefit of no one, Snape is acting in a self-sacrificing, thoughtful 
manner with benefit to good.  So in this specific case, lying is 
worse than murder. <g>

Seriously, I did this as a sort of ethical / philosophical exercise.  
And of course I ignored the fact that Harry's lie only hurts himself 
(I'm relying on the fact that the NEWT will keep Harry from becoming 
an Auror if he really isn't qualified) and Snape's actions (if he 
*did* kill Dumbledore) hurt Dumbledore.

There is the complicating factor of Dumbledore's wishes that I sort 
of brushed over.  But a big question is, did Dumbledore *want* Snape 
to kill him.  And if so, does that factor in at all? 

And of course I totally ignored the torn soul thing.

Um, does that answer your question, Alla?

Betsy Hp (guessing "no" since I'm not sure *I* even know what I'm 
saying)