Lying and Cheating & Golpalotts law.

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 165516

---  "M.Clifford" <Aisbelmon at ...> wrote:
>
> ....  
> 
> 
> Valky:
> ...using the book in class isn't necessarily dependent
> on Harry putting no effort into learning from it, as I
> mentioned before. It does follow that he would have 
> missed Golpalotts law by learning from the HBP text 
> notes instead of other texts, because the HBP text has
> no notes on Golpalott. It doesn't follow that not 
> knowing Golpalotts law means he isn't attempting to 
> learn and understand what he *is* reading in the HBP 
> text. 
> 
> To some degree, it's plausible that his reputation 
> isn't entirely faked, using the book, notes included,
> as his study text and in class, isn't dependent on him
> totally faking the knowledge and ability he arrives at
> through it.   
>  
> ... 
> 

bboyminn:

The discussion has gotten far too deep and complex for
me, so I will confine my comment to one small aspect;
Golpalotts Law, and the application of Golpalotts Law,
which for simplicity I will call 'Golpalotts Method'.

This Method seems very effective if you are /creating/
a poison, and need to make sure you have an antidote
for it. But in a spontanious and dymanic poisioning 
situation, such as the situation with Ron and the mead,
it's worthless. By the time the deciphered the 
individual poisons and determine the individual antidotes
plus the 'added' ingredient and brew up the resultng 
potion, Ron would have been dead.

Now, we have been given two universal (actually, semi-
universal) antidotes in the books; Bazoar and Mandrake.
Is it better for an Auror or wizard-with-enemies to 
carry a whole chemistry set and for them to try and 
work out long complex antidote formulas while they are
dying of poison, or is it better to have a small store
of /universal/ antidotes?

'Golpalotts Method' was implied in the potions lesson,
but it wasn't stated (as far as I remember). True Harry
did not apply 'Golpalotts Method', but he did find a
fast and practical solution to a very real and likely
problem. And as far as I'm concerned, he learned that
particular lesson better than any of the other students,
because Harry taught himself, aided by the 'Book', to
find practical solutions to practical problems; not
theoretical solutions to theoretical problems.

Let me remind everyone that how any particular 
student does in class is meaningless. Harry does
terrible in Snape's potions class leading up to the OWL
test, yet he gets a 'B' (by standard letter grades). 
That's not too shabby. That shows that Harry is quite 
capable of brewing potions when Snape is off his back.

Further note that regardless of what formula Harry
uses, he does very successful brew his potions in 
Slughorn's potions class. When he successfully brews 
potions, it's hard to say his reputation isn't deserved.
Now, Harry looks corrospondingly better, because the 
references all the other students are using are so poor.
But I just don't see what Harry is doing as "Cheating",
because it shows the regardless of what recipe he uses,
if left alone, he can /apply/ them and that is the 
biggest factor.

Regardless, how any student does in class is irrelvant.
The only thing that matters is how they do on their
independantly administered NEWT tests. Harry did poorly
in Snape's class and well in the OWL exams. I don't see
why Slughorn's class would be any different. Yes, there 
is a lot of bragging and fawning by Slughorn over Harry's
'gift' for potions, but I suspect, Harry's well applied
potions and his knowledge of how to apply universal 
antidotes over individual antidotes would serve him well
on his NEWT tests, and again, that is the only thing that
counts.  

Classroom grades are meaningless beyond being a marker of
progress, and from Snape's class we see how that 'marker
of progress' can be greatly distorted by a bad teacher. 
So, it is hard to say Harry cheated on something that is
essentially meaningless. It's hard for me to say Harry is
cheating because Slughorn feels the urge to butter Harry
up and fawn over his successes. 

In the antidote lesson, that same universal antidote 
information was available to every student. They had all
learned it in lessons with Snape, and they greatly learned
about Mandrake universal antidote during the Basalisk 
attacks. It seems to me that rather than lost the lesson,
Harry actually found a better method from what he felt 
was a more reliable source. Hard to fault him for that.

Just one man's opinion.

Steve/bboyminn