[HPforGrownups] Re: MuggleNet - Godrics Hollow Theory.

[Kemper]

No: HPFGUIDX 163473

> > > sherry wrote:
> > >
> > > I believe the charm was broken, the moment Peter told
> > > Voldemort where to find the Potters. Once the secret
> > > keeper betrays the secret, I don't think the charm is
> > > in effect any longer.
> >
> > Kemper now:
> > I'm inferring you to mean that the Fidelius Charm works
> > based on theloyalty of the Secret Keeper. ... It would
> > take away the emotional power of the spell, making the
> > spell's strength based on the Peter's loyalty to the
> > Potters rather than the Potter's faith in Peter.
> >
> > ... the Potters made Peter their SK based on Sirius'
> > suggestion. And they had every faith in him.
> >
>
> bboyminn:
>
> Yes, but 'faith' and 'loyalty' are a two way street.
> The Fidelius, or as I see it, the 'Fidelity' Charm is
> based in trust. The Potter's trusted Peter with their
> lives, and in accepting that trust, Peter is implying a
> true and deep loyalty to the Potters. When Peter betrayed
> the Potters, he betrayed their loyalty. He breached the
> 'fidelity' of the Charm, and the Charm was broken.
>
> ...
>
> Clearly, Peter was neither 'faithful' or 'loyal', and
> did not adhere strictly to his Vows and Promises. That
> supreme act of IN-fidelity breached the Charm.
>
> ... So, in my view, the Secret Keeper Charm can be broken
> by two methods; 1.) A total and complete faithless
> breach of fidelity 2.) when the Secret is no longer
> valid or true. I believe the first case applies to
> Godrics Hollow and the second case applies to
> Grimmauld Place.
>

Kemper now:
The etymology of 'fidelis' (faithful) stems from 'fides' (faith).
To be faithful is different than being loyal.  One suggests a belief
or trust in something/one, the other an obligation to something/one.

Regardless, Peter was neither faithful nor loyal to the Potters at the
time the charm was performed.  "Some one close to the Potters" was
passing information.  So how complex can the charm be if Peter can
fake it?  Peter knew he would tell Voldemort the secret as it was
being concealed inside him.

The complexity comes from the Potters faith in Peter, not in Peter's
loyalty to the Potters.

Let me suggest another way of looking at it to help open your mind...

Do you think the Fidelius Charm something that Voldemort would use?
I don't think so because the spell is based on the virtue of trust/faith.
If it was based on obligation then I would say Voldemort would use it.

But I think Voldemort would use the Unbreakable Vow as it's based on
obligation rather than faith.


> > > Violet wrote:
> > > I do believe that ... Lily and James wouldn't refuse
> > > to have [Dumbledore] know about their whereabouts.
> > > ... umbledore didn't hear the address directly from
> > > the Secret-Keeper's mouth, but perhaps he read it ...
> > > Having been handed the small piece of paper, he
> > > showed Hagrid as well. ...
> > >
> > >
> > > Sherry replied:
> > > I don't think Dumbledore could have shown the paper
> > > to Hagrid. ... if Hagrid wasn't meant to know, I
> > > imagine he couldn't have read the paper. ...
> >
> >
> > Kemper now:
> > I'm not quite sure what you're saying, Sherry.
> >
> > It sounds like you are saying that if Dumbledore had a
> > piece of paper with the Potter location written on it
> > that Dumbledore /could not/ have shown the piece of
> > paper to Hagrid because the secret was not written for
> > Hagrid.
> > If you are saying that Dumbledore /would not/ share
> > the paper with Hagrid without explicit instruction to
> > do so ... then I totally agree. ...
> >
>
> bboyminn:
>
> You both seem to be laboring under the assumption that
> any pieces of paper with the Secret on them would just
> be laying around, or that they would be sent by a
> means as unsecure as the mail (owl-mail).
>
>
> If say Sirius gave Dumbledore a piece of paper with
> the Secret on it, ... He WOULD
> NOT have allowed Dumbledore to keep the piece of paper.


Kemper now:
Are you talking about me?  You used 'both', but quoted three of us...
If it was me, I was clearly addressing Dumbledore's character not a
piece of paper.
With regards to Sirius, I agree.

But I think only Peter and Sirius (and maybe DD) would know the
secret.  Sirius would be the one to get the Potters their necessities:
food, mail from their friends, news, etc.  They seemed to want to
isolate themselves, not wanting to kick it with any unknown traitor in
the midst of their hideout.