The Power of Harry ... (was: Harry's Characterization)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 163518

> >>Mike:
> Right, the HP world is about *magic*. However much this story is 
> about Harry the everykid/man, the story first and foremost is about 
> wizards and witches and their ability to do magic.
> <snip>
> How and why someone is "powerfully magical" is not explained, but   
> it exists in this world and to deny the impact is to deny a major   
> storyline.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Hmm, actually, I completely disagree with you here, Mike.  I think 
magic is a stage dressing more than the *foundation* of JKR's world.  
Otherwise, there'd be a lot more information on how the magic 
actually works: logic, theory, etc.  IMO, anyway.  Instead it's sort 
of pasted into the world.  Do X and Y happens, but we see nothing to 
show the *why*.  It's pretty and glittery and can stand in 
beautifully for real world things (a mother's love physically saving 
her child from harm for example) but it's not a story line, it's a 
prop.

> >>Mike:
> I'll even stick my neck out here to predict that Harry's 
> final solution will involve his usage of that *magical* quality    
> that he and only he brings to the table.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I agree that the end game will involved something special Harry 
brings to the table, but I doubt it will be some sort of specific 
magical quality or even ability.

We've already seen Harry in action when he destroyed Tom's diary.  
And that didn't have any special *magical* skill behind it.  It was 
Harry's instinctual use of the Basilisk fang, which is magical in a 
way but not specifically.  (I think more can be made of the irony of 
Harry's choice than the magical understanding it took.)  I think it's 
also important to note that both the magically powerful Dumbledore, 
and plain old 12 year old Harry have destroyed a horcrux; and Harry 
did the better job.

> >>Magpie:
> > Like I said, when it comes to magical knowledge and prowess to   
> > me it seems like there's just no "there" there. There's nothing   
> > to learn, because Rowling hasn't worked it out.    <snip>

> >>Mike:
> I'm not sure from where you base this on. I read somewhere that JKR 
> has introduced at least 10 new spells in each book, not counting    
> the spells we see (from Harry's pov) but don't know what they are   
> or what they do. 
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Right, but there's not an underlying logic to the magic.  (I'm not 
sure if this is what Magpie meant, I'm speaking for myself, as usual 
<g>.)  Is it a pagan based thing like harnessing powers from various 
god-like beings?  Is it a science based thing like using physical 
forces of the earth's magnatisim only folks with a certain genome can 
tap into?

We've yet to see Harry taught an underlying magical truth he can use 
to build his own magic on.  It's all rote and memorization.  Frankly, 
because I think JKR could really care less about the magic.  She has 
fun coming up with the names of spells, but she's not into figuring 
out a methodology.

> >>Mike:
> One of the reasons JKR and Harry Potter is such a phenomenon is    
> because she got *boys* to read again. Take the magic out and where 
> is she with that readership? 

Betsy Hp:
Cheering madly as Harry outflies a dragon?  <g>

> >>Mike:
> But beyond that, she has shown Harry to produce prodigious feats of 
> magic, besides his ability to remain clear and quick thinking under 
> pressure, right up to OotP.

Betsy Hp:
Really?  I don't recall that at all.  I mean, not that Harry's an 
idiot, or a Hogwarts failure or anything.  But I don't recall Harry 
demonstrating amazing magical ability to defeat his foes.  About the 
only thing that comes to mind is his Patronus in PoA, and that was a 
cheat of a sort (the time-turner was a big help).

Again, not to undermine Harry at all.  But he learns very specific  
skills that aren't excessively amazing in and of themselves.  He 
defeats the GoF dragon with his flying ability and an accio, not his 
understanding of tranfiguration pushed to a new level.

> >>Mike:
> IMO, he seems to regress slightly in HBP. She needs to continue    
> that storyline, imo, advance Harry's magical knowledge if for no    
> other reason than to be true to her own story.

Betsy Hp:
Keeping in mind that HBP is part one Harry is right where he usually 
is: failing miserably at a specific magical skill he needs to learn.  
So yeah, I expect he'll figure out non-verbal skills (and be very 
good at them) in DH.  But it won't be (I think) a sudden 
understanding of everything magical (ala Dumbledore, Snape and 
Voldemort).  It will be a very specific and limited skill.

> >>Magpie:
> > So while I do agree especially with your thoughts on how within   
> > the story it's unrealistic for Harry to not want to work on his   
> > skills, my doubts about it come more from wondering just what    
> > there would be for him to learn.  <snip>

> >>Mike:
> It's not so much *what* he needs to learn, there are a lot of      
> *whats* available to Harry even if we don't know them because JKR   
> hasn't told us (or, as you have rightly suggested, JKR hasn't       
> invented them). 
> It's more of Harry should be shown as trying to advance himself in 
> this area. IMO, he should have started before book/year 7.

Betsy Hp:
Oh, Harry should have started in PS/SS quite frankly.  I mean, he 
knows Voldemort is after him specifically (though not exactly why) in 
his first year.  And yet he still doesn't focus in on becoming a 
wizard to match Voldemort.  Heck, while swearing revenge on Sirius in 
PoA his big study effort is a means to improve his quidditch game.

But Harry still manages to prevail in all of his challanges without 
being a magical prodigy (mainly, I think, with his ability to accept 
help).  I doubt this last book will be any different.

> >>Mike:
> <snip>
> Sure, Harry will get help from his friends. Is that a valid excuse 
> for not learning *some* of this himself? I hope Harry has "learned 
> more than he realizes", and will display this knowledge in DH. I    
> just wish he would have shown some flashes of this                 
> knowledge/ability in HBP.

Betsy Hp:
Harry will depend on his friends, that's his MO.  And he'll call on 
his specific skill set.  And yes, he'll learn a bit (or make use of 
stuff he's had difficulty learning in HBP).  But there's not going to 
be (I think) a major skill gaining session in the opening of DH.

It's not that there isn't a logical reason for Harry to embark on a 
heavy duty training regimen, it's just out of character, for both 
Harry and JKR.  I expect more book study than spell study.  (Though I 
do think Harry will work on his non-verbals.)

Betsy Hp (noticing Magpie's already answered this post, but darn it, 
I'm posting this anyway <g>.)