The Power of Harry ... (was: Harry's Characterization)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 163556

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip>
> > I think magic is a stage dressing more than the *foundation* of   
> > JKR's world.
> > <snip>
> > It's pretty and glittery and can stand in beautifully for real    
> > world things (a mother's love physically saving her child from    
> > harm for example) but it's not a story line, it's a prop.

> >>Mike:
> Oh well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then Betsy. :-)
> Let me expound, anyway. PoA: When Harry reaches out his hand and 
> softly says, "Prongs". The connection with his father is a most 
> poignant moment for me, and many others I'm sure. GoF: When the    
> echo of Lily comes out of the wand and Harry describes his         
> feelings, thinking about her <sniffle>, I almost couldn't take the 
> emotion. 
> JKR is able to bring me to that emotional level because of the 
> magical world she set up.

Betsy Hp:
Right, but it's the *emotions* not the magic that touch you.  It's 
Harry never getting to know his parents.  The magic is the prop that 
brings that emotion home, but it's not the magical technique that 
makes the scene sing: it's Harry's very real feelings.

> >>Mike:
> Harry sitting alone in his bed, reminiscing about his parents      
> wouldn't do it for me. It was the magic that makes it, well...     
> Magical. It's the magic that makes it profound. 
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Hmm, I suspect we're talking at cross purposes here.  Because from 
what you've said it's not really the magic at all.  Because you're 
not really talking about magic.  You're talking about Harry getting a 
chance to see what he's missed out on.  The magic is what brings the 
emotion out, yes, but it's the emotion that hits you. (Um... IMO, of 
course, not trying to put words in your mouth or anything rude like 
that.)

For it to be *about* the magic (in the way I'm thinking about it -- 
which I don't think I've expressed too clearly, sorry) then we'd have 
to be excited by the actual magic.  The magic itself would need to be 
profound.  For example: How cool that Harry is tapping into such and 
such powers!  I'm glad Harry understands that the foundation of X is 
Y and can now unleash the powers of W!  

In other words, if it were about the magic itself, the magic would be 
more center stage.  We the readers would have a very real 
understanding of how the magic of Potterverse works.  Which would 
mean, of course, that JKR would have needed to come up with a 
logical, scientific, rules based magic form.  Which is so not her 
style, IMO. (Thank goodness, because such stories leave me cold. <g>)


> >> Mike previously:
> > One of the reasons JKR and Harry Potter is such a phenomenon is
> > because she got *boys* to read again. Take the magic out and where
> > is she with that readership?

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Cheering madly as Harry outflies a dragon? <g>

> >>Mike:
> You mean Harry flies a broom without magic :P Dragons, dragons .... 
> hmmm, you mean Komodo dragons, right? Cause, no magic... no flying, 
> fire-breathing, horned-tailed dragons, right? <wink>

Betsy Hp:
Ah, but see now you're talking about magic as prop.  "Dragon's exist; 
brooms fly."  You're not talking world foundation. "Dragon's exist 
because...; brooms fly because..."  And in that I agree.  Magic is an 
important prop in JKR's world.  It's what makes it fun.  But it's not 
its foundation.  Good vs. evil; easy choices vs. right choices: those 
are JKR's foundations, IMO.

Which (to bring this back to the original discussion point <g>) is 
why I seriously doubt Harry is going to have a major training 
marathon where he finally learns all the magical knowledge of the 
various adults around him.  It'd be too boring for JKR to write 
because it'd be memorization and rote, not an interesting 
dissertation of the magical rules of Potterverse.

Instead, I think Harry will need to make some right rather than easy 
choices and learn to better differentiate between good and evil.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip>
> > But I don't recall Harry demonstrating amazing magical ability to 
> > defeat his foes. 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/163546
> >>Eggplant:
> Forget Harry's grades, life is the ultimate IQ test. I've posted   
> this list before, it's the times Harry has shown exceptional magical
> ability.
> <snip of list>

Betsy Hp:
Actually, I agree with this list, Eggplant.  Harry has raw power or 
ability and he pulls it out of his pocket when needed.  What Harry 
doesn't have is exceptional magical knowledge (book learning) that he 
uses to create special and specific magic per need. (Which is what I 
was talking about, unclearly, upthread. <g>)

So again, I don't think DH will send Harry into a form of magical 
boot camp where he becomes as proficient as Dumbledore or Voldemort 
or Snape at creating his own magic based on a newly formed 
understanding of the rules of Potterverse magic.  Instead I think 
Harry will dive into Horcrux hunting and follow his instinct (and 
trusted advice) as he goes along.

It's sort of like Harry is a natural athlete, using those skills to 
bring down evil.  Not a science wiz, using superior knowledge to 
bring down evil.  If that makes more sense.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip>
> > It's not that there isn't a logical reason for Harry to embark on 
> > a heavy duty training regimen, it's just out of character, for   
> > both Harry and JKR. I expect more book study than spell study.    
> > (Though I do think Harry will work on his non-verbals.)

> >>Mike:
> Do you mean you expected, past tense? Or do you think there is more 
> book study to come for Harry? Seems unlikely to me. I mean, what    
> book knowledge other than spell knowledge are you expecting Harry   
> to go looking for?

Betsy Hp:
Well, the trio always hit the stacks when dealing with a new problem, 
so I doubt DH will be any different.  And there might be some briefly 
mentioned training where Ron and Harry work on their non-verbal as in 
GoF.  But I don't predict a Moody, Bill Weasley, Lupin (gosh, 
*especially* not Lupin, who's never really been there for Harry 
despite fan expectation), McGonagall boot camp.

But yeah, I can see them looking for a specific spell or some 
specific information on a Founder or two.

> >>Betsy Hp (noticing Magpie's already answered this post, but darn 
> > it, I'm posting this anyway <g>.)

> >>Mike, noticing that though Betsy's post came after Magpie's, it's 
> threaded above Magpie's. How does that happen?

Betsy Hp:
Yahoo!Mort. I sacrifice to it every night.  Magpie's obviously 
skipped a night or two. <g>

> PS - Betsy, you're an elf so I'll ask you. If you start a post     
> before midnight local, but finish after midnight local, which day   
> does it count towards your five max? I'm such a slow typist, it    
> feels like I started this yesterday. Wait... I did, shoot. :(

Betsy Hp (puts on elf hat):
Since we're dealing with so many different time-zones, we go with a 
rolling 24hrs, rather than a midnight stopping point.  So if you 
started posting at 5pm local time and you've posted 5 posts, your 6th 
post should wait until after 5pm local time the next day.  Otherwise: 
firing squad. <g>  (Seriously, I think we elves tend to worry about 
overposting only if it starts to become a trend.)

If anyone has any further questions (or complaints or suggestions) 
about posting limits (or any of our beloved rules) please feel free 
to bring them up on our Feedback list here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-Feedback/
Nothing excites us elves like a good Feedback discussion. <g>

Betsy Hp