The Power of Harry ... (was: Harry's Characterization)

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 163593

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" wrote:
>
> > > > Eggplant:
> > > > 4) Harry could produce a Patronus at a extraordinary young age
> > > > but more important it was so powerful it awed even Hermione, 
> > > > because the only other wizard she knew who could repel a 
> > > > hundred Dementors was Dumbledore. 
> > 
> > > Colebiancardi: 
> > > yes, he did.  Under extreme stress.  Up until then, he was not 
> > > able to produce such a powerful Patronus.  
> > 
> > 
> > Alla:
> > 
> > But does it matter though? Nobody else at Harry age seemed to be 
> > able to do it **at all* - extreme stress or not IMO.
> 
> Carol chimes in:
> 
> Harry had the advantage of special training under Lupin using a
> Dementor Boggart. He couldn't produce a full-fledged corporeal
> Patronus against real Dementors in PoA--only light before he 
> collapsed and lost consciousness. He produced the corporeal 
> Patronus from a distance after seeing his future self do it.

Mike's two knuts:
I'm with Alla and Eggplant, the thrust is not *how* he got to the 
point of being able to do it, it's *that* he did it. So he had extra 
training, would we have expected him to pick up a book and figure out 
how to employ a spell that many fully qualified wizards can't do? 
Colebiancardi says he did it under extreme stress as if it's an 
indictment against him. I say that makes it *more* impressive, not 
less. Carol notes it was from a distance, true, but it was also 
powerful enough to drive away large troup of them. Besides, asking 
any wizard, much less a 13-year-old wizard, to drive off a large 
troup of Dementors that have you pinned down and are leeching your 
strength sounds like unrealistic expectations. You would be asking 
for Dumbledore-level magical strength, imo.

> Carol continued:
>  <snip>  to produce two of them, one per Dementor, in 
> Magnolia Crescent in OoP. <snip>

Mike:
Just a small point, I think there was only one Patronus, Harry just 
sicced it on Dudley's Dementor after it had chased off Harry's.

> Carol continued:
> At any rate, I'm not so sure that Harry's ability to produce a
> corporeal Patronus at thirteen is a reflection of his unusual power 
> or talent so much as a reflection of his extraordinary 
> circumstances, including the luck of having the right Boggart to 
> train with! <snip>

Mike:
Again, I disagree. He was fortunate to have the Boggart to train on, 
but that doesn't diminish the fact that he was training to perform a 
spell that was beyond Newt level, if I remember Lupin's words right. 
Nor does it diminish the fact that his Patronus was powerful enough 
to drive off all of the Dementors. Quite frankly, I was surprised 
that Lupin didn't mention this in his after-sacking discussion with 
Harry. <what do you think Pippin, more fuel? Yeah, I know he quit 
before he was sacked, technicality, imo>



> > > > Eggplant:   
> > > > 5) Harry could easily overcome the Imperius Curse, something 
> even formidable wizards like the real Moody and Crouch junior and
> senior found extremely difficult to do. <snip>
> > 
> > Colebiancardi:   
> > > I don't think "easily" is the right word, IMHO.  In GoF, he was 
> obedient to the curse until his inner voice questioned it.  I think
> he has the knack to overcome the Imperious Curse, but I don't know 
> if the word easy is the correct one.
> > 
> > Alla:
> > 
> > Okay, how about **better** than anybody else so far?
> > 
> Carol:
> This one I'll concede, though I wonder if the ability to resist the
> Imperius Curse is one of the abilities he acquired from Voldemort.
> It's odd that he can do so but can't do Occlumency (so JKR says) 
> since the two require similar abilities.  <snip>

Mike:
As you point out, Harry can't seem to perform even a rudimentary form 
of Occlumency, which is one of Voldemort's abilities. (no direct 
canon support for this supposition, only the belief that the "world's 
greatest Legilemens" would be fairly well versed in the sister 
discipline of Occlumency.) Therefore, I'm disinclined to think that 
Harry got his ability to resist "Imperius" from Voldemort. Especially 
since he showed an advanced aptitude for it right out of the box, and 
this resistance ability is supposed to be closely related to the 
ability-to-resist-mind-penetration, Occlumency. It seems Harry got 
the anti-Imperius gene in spades and the Occlumency gene in deuces.


> > > colebiancard(who thinks Harry is talented, but his friends (and
> > > enemies) do play a huge role in his success)
> > >
> > 
> > Alla, who completely agrees with Eggplant on this one.
> >
> Carol, agreeing with Colebiancardi and respectfully noting the 
> correct spelling of "Patronus" and "Imperius" (blushes and 
> adjusts McGonagall glasses)

Mike, agreeing with Alla and Eggplant, who went ahead and corrected 
the spelling, if that's alright with everyone. Well... actually... I 
corrected it even if it isn't, so here's hopin' you're not mad at me 
for doin' it <g>