MuggleNet - Godrics Hollow Theory. General vs Specific

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 163605

--- In HPforGrownups/message/163551, "justCarol" wrote:

> > Mike previously:
> <snip>
> > On a side note; 12 GP is not hidden by the "Fidelius", imo it was
> > hidden by the charms that the elder Blacks placed on the location.

> Carol Responds:
> If the house were hidden by the charms that the elder Blacks placed 
> on it, the order members wouldn't be able to see it, "propriety" or 
> not. Sirius black would have to remove those charms, and I think 
> they're still there  <snip>
> But once Harry reads and memorizes the note Moody hands him, he can 
> see 12 GP. It's knowing the Secret, as told to him in writing by 
> the Secret Keeper, that enables him to see the house  <snip>

Mike now:
I was trying to reconcile logically what JKR wrote (using Flitwick as 
her mouthpiece) about how the "Fidelius" functions with how the charm 
manifests itself in canon. This might be a fruitless effort seeing as 
how JKR herself doesn't seem to be concerned with consistency in how 
this charm works. Anyway, I'm gonna borrow some of Brothergib's canon 
postings <anything to save myself typing :D>

Start with DD's note about 12 GP. It read: "The headquarters of the 
Order of the Phoenix may be found at number twelve, Grimmauld Place, 
London." (OotP ch 3) To me, that reads that the secret is the 
headquarters location, IOW, where the headquarters was is the secret, 
not number twelve. Or, equated to the Potter's "Fidelius", the 
headquarters equals the Potters and #12 equals 'address', GH. IF you 
see it differently, the rest of this explanation becomes nonsense ;-)

Now, let's look at what Flitwick told us <thanks to brothergib>

> > A little bit of canon -
> >
> > "As long as the Secret-Keeper refused to speak, You-Know-Who could
> > search the village where Lily and James were staying for years and
> > never find them, not even if he had his nose pressed against their
> > sitting room window!" (PA10)

Mike: The implication here is that the "Fidelius" doesn't stop 
someone from seeing the Potter's house, they just wouldn't see the 
Potters. Equating again, someone not in on the OotP secret could 
still see #12, GP; they just couldn't see anything or anyone 
associated with the OotP inside the house.

If this be the case, it must have been some other charm which hides 
the house, not just from Muggles, but from other wizards, too. That's 
why I speculated that by giving DD propriety to use #12 as 'secret' 
HQ, Sirius concurrently granted DD the propriety to reveal the house 
to those he chooses to reveal the 'secret' of the HQ location. I 
know, mighty finicky. Anyway, that's my logic, FWIW.


--- In HPforGrownups/message/163590, "Kemper" wrote:
> >
> > [Brothergib's] theory - <further edited>
> > [SS] wouldn't be able to find the Potters however. SS 
> > contacts DD. DD knows the Potters are there, but
> > probably wasn't directly told by PP. Perhaps the missing 24h 
> > involved DD attempting to break through the Charm in an attempt 
> > to locate Harry/Lily/James.
> >
> 
> Kemper now:
> I really like the last part of your theory: the missing 24h being DD
> breaking through the Fidelius Charm.  It solves two mysteries: the
> missing 24h and being able to find HP (as JKR implies that he is the
> subject of the Fidelius Charm along with his parents). <snip>

Mike now:
Kemper, you found the holes in the "Fidelius-never-took" theory, 
which was good. Like I said, I wasn't really sold on that theory 
anyway, just wanted to throw it out there. Likewise, I'm glad 
Brothergib threw his theory for scrutiny. So, here's me 
scrutinizing. ;-)

If DD is trying to break through the "Fidelius", I'm supposing he's 
doing it at Godric's Hollow? You implied such, but didn't give a 
reason as to how he knows the Potters are at GH if the "Fidelius" 
he's trying to break through is still actively hiding the Potters?

But no matter. The big hole, imo, is if the 24h is explained by DD at 
GH breaking the charm, what happened *after* he broke the charm? He 
leaves Harry in the rubble, calls/arranges for Hagrid to come get 
Harry, then leaves to go do some other business before showing up 
later that evening at Privet Drive? Especially believing that Sirius 
Black was the SK and therefore the traitor, and SB's whereabouts is 
unknown? Jeez, that would be beyond cold-hearted, don't ya think?

Mike, who's going to watch (American) football now. See ya in a few 
hours :-)