Maybe Snape really is DDM!

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 163707

Replies starred (**)

Carol:
Are you suggesting that Snape *didn't* kill Dumbledore, that, say, it
was a fake AK and DD really died from the poison? 


**Valky:
Yep. That I am. I've not believed that Dumbledores death was as simple
as Snape AKing him opportunely from the start. It never quite sat
right with me. You might recall we've deconstructed Snape's AK
together before a couple of times and come to a pretty strong
conclusion that it didn't tick all the AK check boxes making it
suspicious. 

I do suspect the poison as the killer, mostly because there is/was an
LV Horcrux involved and the poison was delivered by Harry's hand. But
that's another theory. 





Carol:
That's an idea I've
considered and haven't wholly rejected, but I'm surprised that it
would come from someone who sees Snape as unfavorably as you seem to.

**Valky:
LOL, yeah, I will stand by my conviction that Snape was definitely a
sinister-minded and very unlikeable *teen*. Whatever good he had in
him, at that stage, he suppressed strongly, but I also agree with
Dumbledore that in his maturity he managed to change his mind about a
couple of things and find again that better person inside himself
which he aspired to, even though he remained nasty and unlikeable in
many ways, he is a slightly better person as an adult.




Carol:
At any rate, DDM!Snape as a theory (or set of theories) doesn't
require Snape to be innocent of killing Dumbledore. It just requires
killing Dumbledore to have been the right choice and in accordance
with what DD wanted him to do.

**Valky:
Yeah, I totally agree. It is my opinion that Snape didn't kill
Dumbledore, of it's own precedence. It just doesn't ring true to me
that the Tower scene was what it appeared on the surface, whether
Snape is DD's man or not, none of my theory grasps to support that he
is in any way, but rather, vice versa: I have my theory and its
conclusion is Snape is DD's man, whether I like it or not.

 



Potioncat:
Sticking with your theory for this post, let's look at Lupin again.
His intention was to keep secrets that he knew he should tell, in
order to protect his status. (the Animagus Black, the tunnels, the
map) All those secrets crashed down on him, revealing to others one
of his secrets and putting others at very big risk. And of course,
causing him to leave the position of DADA master.

**Valky:
Yeah I like this take too, Potioncat. It makes sense to me, if we are
to believe that Lupins only intention was to protect himself and his
status. But again, I'm not sure that's what his intentions were, and I
think for the most his secret keeping was benevolent, he kept the
secret of his wolfism so he could be a teacher of DADA, helping the
children at Hogwarts and protecting the son and schoolmates of one of
his dearest friends. He quite possibly kept the secret of Sirius's
animagus form because deep down he never really believed that Sirius
was guilty and could not bring himself to condemn Sirius; this would
be benevolent intent. 

OTOH, Lupin was not benevolent toward Snape, he teased and mocked him
in front of the students and encouraged the students to percieve him
with disdain, his intentions there were about as Dark as I think it
gets with Lupin, but dark enough to be his downfall in the end.

What I am thinking is that the DADA curse feeds from the darkness
inside the Teacher, and the intention it feeds upon needs to be
genuine malevolence, rather than just a secret of some kind or nature,
but based upon something LV might believe that all people have such a
weakness inside them that they would turn to an evil end, that
everyone has their dark side to feed the curse with. And so that is
why I related it to Lupins intentions towards Snape, rather than the
other things he did which he felt guilty for.

 



Potioncat:
I have to think about this. You're now in Pippin's camp---that Snape
didn't kill DD. 


**Valky
LOL, as I said above, I always have been in that camp. I don't think
Dumbledore died that way. 
 




 
zgirnius:
As I understand Valky's point about the DADA curse, we could easily
restate her position to fit a wide variety of DDM! theories. The lie
which is Snape's downfall is that he *murdered* the Headmaster. This
could cover a situation in which he indeed did not kill the Headmaster
at all, something else, like the poison, did that, or a situation where
Snape did kill Dumbledore, but at the latter's request and with good
intentions (like saving Harry and Draco, and thwarting Voldemort).
  

**Valky:
True, zgirnius, on the grounds that benevolent intentions are useless
to the curse, it cannot feed from them, then if Snape did successfully
AK Dumbledore, but only with a good intent, that could work. Not sure
I like the way it works, though, it gets a bit too complicated for me,
from there. 






CDR: 
My question about the "worst intentions" model for the curse, that
breaks it down for me, is: What were Lupin's worst intentions? To
keep his secret from coming out? Maybe. Unlike all of the others,
though, Lupin doesn't have that big bad intention he is hiding
(unless he's ESE, right!) and so he does not fit the pattern quite
enough for me. He does have massive secrets though, as potioncat and
others mentioned, so the curse had plenty to work on using that
model.

**Valky:
As I said above I agree Lupin doesn't have a big bad intention that he
is hiding, which is why I latched onto the concept of his slight
malevolence towards Snape. His intent there wasn't nice, really, and
couldn't be construed as good, so that fits the bill for me. 

 

:)
Valky