Snape, a Deatheater.

[puduhepa98 at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 163938

Nikkalmati wrote:
> <snip> Agreed, that Snape is making a  deliberate move here, but I
don't think the motive is hidden from us by JKR.  I think she intends
for us to be able to figure it out. She is not holding  back here. If
Snape is taking the UV to placate or to please Narcissa, it  seems
grossly insufficient as a motive to me. The UV is a terrifying  piece
of magic. <snip> Unless you propose Snape is in love with  Narcissa
(for which we have no evidence), he cannot gain anything by  swearing
his life away to comfort her. I also cannot see that he need  to
impress Bella. In fact, he is swearing to do something LV wants 
Draco  to do or to die attempting. He is going against LV's wishes
and that is no  way to impress Bella. I also don't think Snape would
say to himself - well I  plan to kill DD anyway so I might as well
have this sword of Damocles hanging  over me to give me a little extra
motivation.

>Carol  responds:
>And yet Bellatrix expects him to "slither out of action." the  last
thing she expects is for Snape to agree to "do the deed" if it  appears
that Draco can't. He's spent the first half of the  interview
convincing her or his loyalty, and that work would be undone if  he
backed out of the UV, as would Narcissa's trust in him. I think he
does  respond to her with pity and agree to the first two provisions of
the vow  partly for that reason. But his primary motivation is almost
certainly to  help and protect Draco, which is what he agrees to do
before Narcissa states  the provisions of the vow. That's why he
doesn't flinch or react during the  first two provisions, which require
him to watch over and protect Draco, whom  he knows to be in grave
danger of either being killed or commiting a terrible  crime. He would
have done so anyway as a friend of the Malfoys and as head  of
slytherin House. It's also what Dumbledore would expect him to do.
He's  used to risking his life for DD. He's doing so yet again. As for
the third  provision, I don't see how he could have escaped from it,
bound as he was by  ropes of fire. Certainly, he would have destroyed
all he had accomplished  with both women. Bellatrix would merely think
that he was willing to kill  Dumbledore if Draco failed, which would
certainly clear away any suspicions  that he was Dumbledore's man, or
even disloyal to Voldemort in the end. "I  think he means for me to do
it in the end" would be sufficient explanation  for the action. It
wouldn't seem disloyal; it would seem quite the opposite,  willingnes
to rid Voldemort of the only one he ever feared. (Bella's  objection is
not that he's defying Voldemort; it's that he's robbing Draco of  his
chance for "glory" (which is why she later thwarts him by  teaching
Draco rudimentary Occlumency). But I also think that Snape hoped  that
he and DD could work together to keep Draco from  confronting
Dumbledore. I'm sure he thought that he was more likely to die  from
breaking the vow than he was to kill a wizard as powerful as  DD,
especially after he told DD about the vow. It was a calculated  risk,
and the primary goal was to keep Draco from killing DD--at all  costs
to Snape himself.
 
Nikkalmati
I don't think we are in disagreement here.  I certainly don't think SS  
anticipated part 3 of the vow and I don't think that he could withdraw at that  
point - magically that is.  I think he would have been less concerned about  
Narcissa or Bella's opinion and would have risked any other problem before  
swearing to kill DD.  I can agree that Bella is perhaps more concerned with  SS 
stealing Draco's glory than any disloyalty to LV, but when the ladies first  
entered, I think SS was concerned that Bella would report Narcissa.  It is  quite 
clear that the three of them are going behind LV's back and that is quite  
risky for all of them.  After the UV was taken there was little for DD and  SS to 
do but try to prevent it coming to fruition by all means at their  disposal.  
BTW, would SS ever have forced DD to kill him?  Not a  pleasant thought.
Nikkalmati

Nikkalmati:
<snip>  Doesn't Snape look  pretty ineffective in his interview with
Draco during Slughorn's party?  <snip>

>Carol responds:
>I disagree. Snape finds out that  Draco has "backup" other than Crabbe
and Goyle (whom he has already placed in  detention and presumably
Legilimensed)Legilimensed)<WBR>. That has to mean that he's  working 
He also informs Draco that he's suspected of being  connected with the
cursed necklace incident and warns him against using  amateurish
tactics that can easily be traced to him. It's too late to stop  the
poisoned mead from being sent to Slughorn, but Draco ceases  such
dangerous tactics and focuses on the cabinet from that point on.  He
learns that Draco has a "plan" that's taking him longer than  he
expected (though Draco refuses to tell him what the plan is). He  also
deduces that Aunt Bellatrix is involved (teaching Draco Occlumency).  I
suspect that he saw something in Draco's eyes while Draco was  wasting
time talking ("I know what you're doing. I can block you.") I  also
suspect that he knew or guessed where Draco was when Filch found  him
upstairs (note that he looks both angry and a little bit afraid).  If
Snape doesn't suspect that Draco is using the RoR and that the  girls
who occasionally accompany him are the Polyjuiced Crabbe and  Goyle,
I'll be very surprised. All he needs to do is to question the  real
girls, using Legilimency if necessary, to discover that they have  no
knowledge of Draco's plans and no connection with  him.

Nikkalmati
Yes, he does probably learn that Draco has backup and warns him off any  
silly attempts in the future, but he doesn't accomplish all that much.  (It  is 
listees who have figured out that Bella is involved, we are never told SS has  
that idea, but I would not be surprised if it were true).  We do  find  out 
that Draco has refused to come see SS when told to and we see Draco walk out  on 
SS in a fit of anger.  Furthermore, SS and DD don't seem to learn  anything 
more about Draco's task during the rest of the year than they knew at  Christmas!
 
Nikkalmati


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