Question from a newbie: Taking memories out of your head?
zgirnius
zgirnius at yahoo.com
Tue Jan 23 18:36:39 UTC 2007
No: HPFGUIDX 164081
> Dana:
> I have seen many suggestions that
> Snape removed these memories from his head to protect them from
> being seen by Harry. Can anyone tell me why so many think that the
> pensive is a memory elimination device?
zgirnius:
A number of reasons come to mind.
First, why else would Snape remove memories and put them in the
Pensieve before the lessons? Well, there is an arcane evil Snape
theory that he did so to bait Harry into looking, so that he could
end the lessons, but I don't buy it. First, because the lessons went
on for weeks, and second, because I believe Snape does not own a
Pensieve - he is using Dumbledore's. If Dumbledore loaned it to him
to use during classes, this suggests there is a legitimate use for it
when teaching Occlumency.
Second, in GoF, Dumbledore explains the function of the Pensieve by
first stating: "I sometimes find, and I am sure you know the feeling,
that I simply have too make thoughts and memories crammed into my
mind." Wording which suggests the possibility that placing the excess
memories in the Pensieve relives the problem...
> Dana:
> Slughorn's memory was still there even though it
> was altered.
zgirnius:
I like the 'word processor' explanation of this seeming paradox: when
the user extracts the memory, s/he may "cut" or "copy" the memory. If
giving a memory to someone else permanently, it would make sense to
copy rather than cut, uhnless one truly wished to be rid of a memory.
> Dana:
> Snape knows perfectly well
> what Harry has seen in his memory but that could not be if the
> memory wasn't there in the first place. To be able to understand
> what Harry has seen and what implications it would have shouldn't
> both people have placed the memory back first before reacting to it?
zgirnius:
Yes, using the terminology I introduced above, if Snape's purpose in
putting the memory in the Pensieve was to keep Harry from seeing it,
then he would have "cut" the memory, knowing he could "paste" it back
after the class was over.
So why does he know what is in it? I think there are at least two
types of memories. One is the full actual record of everyting
excternal that happened in a particular event in one's life. That
would be what Harry saw in the Pensieve. He did not, however, sense
any of what Snape was thinking/feeling/remembering in that scene.
But one can have secondary memories, memories *of* those memories.
Snape may remember how, on many occasions after that memory, he
thought about what had happened. He may remember his plans to remove
that memory so Harry would not see it. These memories are
not 'visual'.
Or, perhaps, a better way to express my idea would be to say that if
Harry did break into these secondary memories of Snape's worst
memory, what he would see would be the external stuff that was going
on when Snape had those thoughts. He might see young Snape staring at
the ceiling in his dorm unable to sleep (as he remembers his
humiliation). Or he might see Snape leaning back in his chair in his
office as he takes a break from grading (and decides he will borrow
the Pensieve to hide some memories from Harry).
In this way, Snape can have a recollection of what the memory
contains, without having an accessible visual record for Harry to
see. I, after all, remember what happened to Snape. If there were
wizards, and one stuck all my memories in a Pensieve, I don't think
they would see what happened to Snape. They would see me reading and
rereading "The Order of the Phoenix", and participating in online
discussions. :D
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