Question from a newbie: Taking memories out of your head?

zgirnius zgirnius at yahoo.com
Tue Jan 23 18:36:39 UTC 2007


No: HPFGUIDX 164081


> Dana:
> I have seen many suggestions that
> Snape removed these memories from his head to protect them from
> being seen by Harry. Can anyone tell me why so many think that the
> pensive is a memory elimination device? 


zgirnius:
A number of reasons come to mind. 

First, why else would Snape remove memories and put them in the 
Pensieve before the lessons? Well, there is an arcane evil Snape 
theory that he did so to bait Harry into looking, so that he could 
end the lessons, but I don't buy it. First, because the lessons went 
on for weeks, and second, because I believe Snape does not own a 
Pensieve - he is using Dumbledore's. If Dumbledore loaned it to him 
to use during classes, this suggests there is a legitimate use for it 
when teaching Occlumency.
Second, in GoF, Dumbledore explains the function of the Pensieve by 
first stating: "I sometimes find, and I am sure you know the feeling, 
that I simply have too make thoughts and memories crammed into my 
mind." Wording which suggests the possibility that placing the excess 
memories in the Pensieve relives the problem...

> Dana: 
> Slughorn's memory was still there even though it
> was altered. 

zgirnius:
I like the 'word processor' explanation of this seeming paradox: when 
the user extracts the memory, s/he may "cut" or "copy" the memory. If 
giving a memory to someone else permanently, it would make sense to 
copy rather than cut, uhnless one truly wished to be rid of a memory.


> Dana:
> Snape knows perfectly well
> what Harry has seen in his memory but that could not be if the
> memory wasn't there in the first place. To be able to understand
> what Harry has seen and what implications it would have shouldn't
> both people have placed the memory back first before reacting to it?

zgirnius:
Yes, using the terminology I introduced above, if Snape's purpose in 
putting the memory in the Pensieve was to keep Harry from seeing it, 
then he would have "cut" the memory, knowing he could "paste" it back 
after the class was over. 

So why does he know what is in it? I think there are at least two 
types of memories. One is the full actual record of everyting 
excternal that happened in a particular event in one's life. That 
would be what Harry saw in the Pensieve. He did not, however, sense 
any of what Snape was thinking/feeling/remembering in that scene.

But one can have secondary memories, memories *of* those memories. 
Snape may remember how, on many occasions after that memory, he 
thought about what had happened. He may remember his plans to remove 
that memory so Harry would not see it. These memories are 
not 'visual'. 

Or, perhaps, a better way to express my idea would be to say that if 
Harry did break into these secondary memories of Snape's worst 
memory, what he would see would be the external stuff that was going 
on when Snape had those thoughts. He might see young Snape staring at 
the ceiling in his dorm unable to sleep (as he remembers his 
humiliation). Or he might see Snape leaning back in his chair in his 
office as he takes a break from grading (and decides he will borrow 
the Pensieve to hide some memories from Harry).

In this way, Snape can have a recollection of what the memory 
contains, without having an accessible visual record for Harry to 
see. I, after all, remember what happened to Snape. If there were 
wizards, and one stuck all my memories in a Pensieve, I don't think 
they would see what happened to Snape. They would see me reading and 
rereading "The Order of the Phoenix", and participating in online 
discussions. :D






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