Would Harry forgiving Snape be character growth for him? Re: CHAPDISC: HBP 29,

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 164108

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <SNIP>
> > The issue here is, I can't think of any themes an ESE!Snape would 
> > reflect.  Not that have been in the story all ready.  I also     
> > don't see how an ESE!Snape adds anything to Harry's story.  It   
> > turns what I see as a tale of growth into the Emperor's New      
> > Clothes.  Which I don't see as the story JKR is telling.  So this 
> > is the place where it's hard to continue the play-acting.  ESE!  
> > Snape belongs in a different story altogether. (IMO, of course.   
> > <g>)
 
> >>Alla:
> <snip>
> The question is why do you not see that Harry forgiving Snape, evil 
> Snape or any less than completely DD!M Snape would be a character 
> growth for Harry.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I guess the problem is that I don't see forgiveness figuring into the 
story if Snape is ESE.  What has he done to invite forgiveness at 
this point?  How is Harry being pushed towards forgiving him?  Do you 
feel that Harry's main goal for DH should be to chase down Snape, 
forgive him, and I guess through the power of his patented Harry-love 
turn Snape towards redemption? Because I don't see any hint of this 
being a theme in the books.

If Snape is actually evil and so cunning he managed to fool 
Dumbledore I think the story would have to be about how Harry has 
been right all along and no one listened to him because...  Well, if 
we're going with the "naked Emperor" story-line, then it'd be Harry's 
untainted principle and honesty (which I also have a hard time seeing 
in the actual books <g>).

And then of course there's the issue zgirnius raises:

> >>zgirnius:
> Speaking only for myself, the objection to ESE!Snape as I           
> understand it is not that it would not provide an example of Harry 
> doing something noble and heroic is he forgave ESE!Snape. It would. 
> It would not provide anything *new*.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
ESE!Snape overshadows Voldemort.  In fact, if Snape really is evil, 
the opening of DH should be Snape killing Voldemort and taking his 
place.  Because Snape has shown himself *far* more capable as a 
villain then Voldemort.  Snape fooled the great Dumbledore; Voldemort 
tried and failed.  Snape killed the great Dumbledore; Voldemort tried 
and failed. 

Which again, flies in the face of the theme of the books.  We've had 
it driven home again and again: Voldemort is the big bad.  He's the 
destructive force that is using the WW's (and Hogwarts') rifts to 
tear that world apart.  And of course there's Voldemort's fear of 
death. If Snape is evil, then all of those themes are out the 
window.  Who cares what Voldemort represents or illustrates, he's 
nothing.  The big bad has been Snape all along.  (If *only* we'd 
listened to "pure at heart" Harry!)

> >>Alla:
> But what I do want to know is how Harry moving from hate of Snape   
> to forgiving the Snape is not the character growth, but Emperor new 
> clothes as you said.
> <snip>
> On the other hand, it will make Harry see that anybody is capable   
> of redemption, that he just as DD should give people second chances 
> and the most importantly, it teaches Harry that he should not be    
> like Snape, should not hold grudges.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Again, if that's a theme in the books (and I seriously haven't seen 
it) then it'd be taken care of with Voldemort.  If Harry is supposed 
to forgive someone evil, Voldemort is standing right there, blood of 
Harry's parent's dripping from his hands.  ESE!Snape would once again 
be a repeat.

But honestly, I don't see forgiveness as a theme.

Betsy Hp