Would Harry forgiving Snape be character growth for him? Re: CHAPDISC: HBP 29,

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 164116


> Alla:
> 
> Wait, wait now I am even more confused. So you do not see 
> forgiveness as one of the theme of the books at all?
> 
> As to what Snape would have done to invite forgiveness? Well, 
there 
> is always book 7. I guess Snape/Lily ( supposed one) can heavily 
> influence that. I absolutely can see Harry forgiving Snape **not** 
> because Snape did anything to invite forgiveness, but simply 
because 
> his mother would have wanted him to forgive. ( because forgiveness 
> is supposed to be a gift, no? I mean I am all for forgiveness 
being 
> earned, believe me, but isn't in christianity one supposed to 
> forgive just because Jesus did? And no, I am not saying it would 
be 
> direct allegory, just thematic possibility IMO).
> 
> And the fact that Harry did forgive him may cause Snape to do 
> something redemptive at the end, etc.

Va32h:
Harry needs to forgive for Harry's sake - so that he too is not
consumed by his hatred and need for revenge. Snape does not need to
invite Harry's forgiveness, he doesn't even need to accept it, or
even know about it.

I don't expect Harry to invest himself in forgiving Snape in DH. But
at some point in the story, yes, I do think that Harry cannot remain
pure of soul if he does not forgive.


Magpie:
I think what Betsy might mean--and what others are also saying--is 
that she doesn't see blanket forgiveness *for its own sake* as a 
theme in the books. JKR really doesn't seem to put too much stress 
on forgiving someone on principle. She seems to get more into the 
individuals actually feeling the desire to forgive for a reason.

Given the way Snape is set up, I can't imagine Harry offering ESE!
Snape forgiveness just to forgive him without it being another jab 
at Snape, showing satisfying contempt. Because what in Harry's 
character or the books so far has set up that sort of thing, where 
someone says, "You're the worst person in my world, but I forgive 
you?" On the contrary, the books are far more interested in the 
reasons why people *can't* forgive, and in forgiving through truly 
understanding the other person. Harry has to learn and develop in 
order to forgive any version of Snape, and it's just hard to imagine 
what lessons he'll be learning and what direction he'll be 
developing to arrive at the forgiveness of ESE!Snape.

So if Harry is going to forgive ESE!Snape--it could certainly be 
growth. But I suspect Harry would have to be forgiving him because 
he understands why Snape did these things, and can empathize or see 
something good there. (The "drop of pity" Harry feels for Draco at 
the end of HBP is connected not just to Draco's fear and hard 
situation but to Draco's wand going down.) 

I admit it's hard for me to envision this because it seems so much 
like JKR is gearing up for compassion for Snape, for showing us that 
he really did feel remorse and really did try to undo what he did. 
Since these books don't seem generally forgiving, I have a hard time 
imagining how this would play out. It seems like either Harry has 
got to literally recognize himself in ESE!Snape and so be able to a 
connection even though Snape's as evil as he is, or Harry's 
forgiveness would be more along the lines of his feelings about 
Peter--he's evil, but he's beneath me. I'll let the Dementors/death 
take care of him. It's hard for me to see the build-up to Harry's 
forgiving ESE!Snape out of what I guess you'd call a more exalted 
place.

I guess the most obvious comparison for me would not be Harry 
forgiving Voldemort, but Harry forgiving Peter, who also continues 
to make choices to destroy Harry's happiness. Harry could certainly 
forgive him, but I can't imagine him forgiving him in a way that 
doesn't highlight the contempt Peter should be held in.   

-m