[HPforGrownups] Why did Snape remove *that* memory? Was:Taking memories out of your head?

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 164142

> Anne Squires now:
>
> I believe the entire episode was a set up.
>
> I think that Snape's worst memories are, indeed, stored in vials or
> containers.  Either that or he knows that his worst/most incriminating
> memories are so well protected by his skills at Occlumency that there
> is absolutely no way that Harry will ever discover them, Protego spell
> or not.  I think the memories that Harry did end up seeing when he
> cast the Protego spell were memories that Snape had allowed to come to
> the surface.  He was prepared to sacrifice these memories just in case
> Potter did manage to achieve something during the lessons.
> Considering the fact that Snape is a former DE who had direct dealings
> with LV, I just don't believe that his memories of a troublesome
> broomstick, shooting down flies, or of domestic troubles are very
> problematic for him.  I don't think he is overly concerned that anyone
> should view these memories, not do I think Snape considers these
> memories to be *that* bad, relatively speaking.  These are the
> memories that he allows LV to view as well as Potter.   His memories
> of listening in on the Trelawney Prophecy and of whatever brought him
> back to DD were *not* in the pensieve. I don't think they ever were.
>
> I think the pensieve contained memories which were guaranteed to show
> James Potter and Sirius Black in a very negative way.  I think Snape
> knew that at some point he would be called away.  Probably he is used
> to being interrupted while in his office; I'm fairly certain that
> being called away for whatever reason is not highly unusual.
> Considering the fact that the school had disintegrated into such
> complete chaos under Umbridge, I believe that Snape was fairly certain
> that at some point he would be called away.  In fact, when Harry took
> the plunge into the pensieve it was the second time that Snape had
> left him alone with the pensieve.  I think Snape was somewhat
> surprised that Harry didn't take the bait the first time.

Magpie:
Knowing Snape as I do (as just another reader) I have a hard time believing 
he'd want Harry to see him humiliated like that. (I also think that memory 
can absolutely be more painful and embarassing for Snape than many a day 
cavorting with Death Eaters--Snape doesn't mind people seeing him being 
cruel, he minds looking foolish and weak and getting PANTSED.)

Did James look so bad in that scene, from Snape's pov? Didn't he look like 
the victor, using Snape's own spell against him? Snape's the one who looked 
pathetic--he's the one with his pants showing. Saying Snape wanted Harry to 
see this to see his Dad look bad seems like Dudley showing Harry the Twins 
giving him the Ten Tongue Toffee and the aftermath expecting Harry to turn 
against the Twins for it. Most at the time thought it was funny.

Certainly not to show him James and Sirius looking bad--why would Snape 
think Harry would think James and Snape looked bad there anyway? If Snape 
thought that of Harry doesn't it suggest that Snape knows Harry is not like 
James, that he's a good person who might be on Snape's side? I think Snape 
might assume Harry would think it was as funny as his father did (and 
everyone did at the time--Harry would have to be better than everyone Snape 
was at school with). You're describing this as depending on Snape knowing 
Harry's shortcomings (he'll peek into the Pensieve), but it seems to more 
depend on Snape knowing Harry's virtues.

I also have a hard time believing Snape assumed he'd be called away. He was 
only called away here due to circumstances beyond his control that had to do 
with Slytherin. It's not like Snape automatically gets called any time 
anything went wrong. If he was banking on that I think he might have been 
disappointed and Harry would never have gone into the Pensieve. I don't see 
why Dumbledore would tattle on Harry to Snape about going into his Pensieve 
before.

Anne Squires:
> I think Snape was thrilled when Harry finally, finally took the bait
> and went into this memory of the Mauraders.  Snape was not angry.  We
> saw Snape when he was truly in a rage at the end of PoA.  In PoA Snape
> completely lost control.  He certainly didn't have enough enough
> control to throw a jar of cockroaches and make sure it missed its
> supposed target.  The jar toss was for show.  Snape wasn't really
> trying to actually hit Harry.  Also, Snape had enough control to grab
> a jar of bugs, not a jar of some rare, expensive potion ingredient.
> Nope, he was not in a rage;  he was feeling triumphant.

Magpie:
That's a leap I can't make. Snape loses control enough to throw a jar at a 
student (maybe--I think people have suggested it might have just exploded), 
so you assume that throwing something requires exceptional control (I don't 
think Snape's going to lose his basic motor control just because he's 
angry), and when he misses that proves that was proof of better aim because 
he was trying to miss? It reads more believably to me as straightforward: 
Snape hates James as always, Harry's now seeing a painful memory that makes 
him hate James, now he sees Harry humiliating him along with his father, and 
he's angry enough to throw the nearest jar at him like a toddler having a 
tantrum. Sounds like Angry!Snape to me!

-m