Why did Snape remove *that* memory? /James & Sirius married

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 164181

> Alla:
> 
> First and foremost let me say that I am not married to the idea of 
it 
> being a set up, definitely not. Because too often within the 
heated 
> discussion I find myself straying my argument from the POV I held 
to 
> answer exaggerated point and then my point gets exaggerated in 
turn, 
> etc ( not with you, but it certainly happened to me). So, please 
keep 
> in mind that the most I can say is that I just find it to be one 
of 
> the possibilities, that's all.

Magpie:
Heh--I was thinking the same thing. I mean, I know that this is just 
something you're considering, not something you're fighting for and 
believe is canon. It's just a possibility to question in light of 
ESE!Snape.

Alla:
> 
> Because you see I look at OOP and reread it now with much more 
> sinister Snape in mind than you do and I would not past **any** 
dirty 
> trick behind him.
> 
> Certainly within the set up of DD!M Snape it could be the 
emotional 
> scene needed to introduce Snape's wounds that never healed, James 
and 
> Sirius as bullies, etc, etc.
> 
> If one thinks about set up of Evil Snape or OFH!Snape or LID!
Snape, 
> this scene can still be read as that, but it can also be read as 
> Snape for example getting all that he needed from Harry's mind for 
> Voldemort, exposing him enough, etc and figuring that he had 
enough 
> and those occlumency lessons must be stopped at all costs.

Magpie:
I definitely don't have a problem with ESE!Snape pulling dirty 
tricks. My problem with this particular trick is it seems to go 
against certain core characteristics of Snape--best exemplified by 
him allowing Harry to see him being humiliated and in his underwear. 
Based on what I know of Snape it's very hard for me to believe him 
allowing that to happen as part of his own plan or having enough 
distance from his feelings about James to fake anger over it. I feel 
like Snape's hatred of James is, if anything, even more deep than we 
might suspect, so I take all his emotional outbursts about it as 
true.

Alla:
> 
> It smells set up to me for example when Snape takes his memories 
of 
> the pensieve directly ** in front** of Harry and leaves the 
pensieve 
> right there.
> 
> I mean, really if Snape did not want Harry to see it and know 
about 
> it, was it so difficult to do it **before** Harry comes and I do 
not 
> know, leave pensieve hidden?
> 
> As to why Snape leaves this memory in, if this is a set up. No 
clue, 
> but if we are saying that some things are needed for the plot, why 
> not this one as well?

Magpie:
You mean that if ESE!Snape needs to get Harry to go into the 
Pensieve to stop the lessons it has to be there, so JKR used this to 
show us this memory at the same time? Like I said, I can believe a 
situation where Snape wanted Harry to do something wrong so that he 
could stop the lessons. But I can't believe this was a trap set up 
by Snape. Not when Snape's hung upside down in his underwear in 
front of Harry Potter. It would definitely be JKR's style to kill 
two birds with one stone (that's exactly what she is doing--showing 
us the memory and ending the lessons), but not at the expense of 
character.

Alla:
> Another possibility is that Snape wanted Harry to see that memory 
to 
> have more grounds to complain to Dumbledore and paint himself as 
> victim of Potter's son who could not contain his curiosity and 
> awakened his wounds that never healed.
> 
> And what do you know, DD says that some wounds never healed. :)
> 

Magpie:
But again at the expense of making himself look foolish and weak (in 
his pov, from what I know of Snape). He has to present himself as 
wounded (even if he's also pretending to cover it up with anger) 
rather than presenting himself as angry and having Dumbledore 
conclude that he's wounded. 

> > Magpie:
> > But of course Malfoy didn't call him out for something 
fictitious 
> so 
> > it's like proving a negative. There's no sign in canon that 
Snape 
> > put this memory there hoping Harry would see it. We just have to 
> > assume that he *would* have brought Malfoy in on it (inviting 
> Malfoy 
> > into lessons Snape was keeping quiet from him) if it hadn't 
worked. 
> > We'll just never know because he didn't have to do that.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Um,yes, of course. I thought I stated clearly that I was only 
> speculating. The basis for that speculation of the sort is that 
even 
> in that set up when Snape gets called for real trouble, Malfoy is 
the 
> one who calls on him, basically somebody who would do whatever 
Snape 
> orders him.

Magpie:
But does that really give any evidence that it's a set up? Montague 
is really in the toilet, Malfoy doesn't know about the lessons Snape 
is giving to Harry. Snape probably could order Malfoy to interrupt 
him with a story and Malfoy would do it and keep quiet about it, but 
he didn't. So if it suggests in any direction, I'd say it's in the 
direction of it not being a set up.

I understanding considering the possibility to see if ESE!Snape was 
working against DD all the time. I just don't see enough evidence 
for it to really work.

Lydia:
As for Sirius being unmarried at 23 when James was, I don't find 
that at all unusual. One of them fell in love and married, the other 
didn't. Neither situation is strange. They are just different.

Magpie:
Sorry, I must not have read clearly. I thought you were agreeing 
with the opposite side, I guess. My bad. I don't think it's odd that 
they were friends with one single and one married either.


-m