CHAPDISC: HBP 29, The Phoenix Lament

[dungrollin]

No: HPFGUIDX 164258

Dungrollin discussion question #3:
Assuming Hermione's account of events in Snape's office is accurate, 
what do you make of her and Luna's gullibility? Are you annoyed that 
they didn't realise immediately that Snape had stupefied Flitwick 
and try to stop him? Since Ron, Neville and Ginny weren't much more 
use when confronted by the Peruvian Darkness Powder, and only made 
it through the fight because of the Felix Felicis, have your views 
on how useful the DA really was changed?

Ceridwen: 
They weren't gullible. Snape was a teacher, and an Order member, and 
he told them that Flitwick needed help. Hermione and Luna are not as 
suspicious as Harry and wouldn't react in an automatically 
suspicious way.

Dungrollin:
I'm replying to Ceridwen, though most people seem to have answered 
this question similarly, so I'm not picking on her...

In response to all this insistence that Hermione and Luna were not 
gullible, perhaps we could agree that they were at the very least a 
little slow? Here's a quote from Chapter 25, The Seer Overheard (UK 
p515); 

<quote>
Quickly he told them where he was going, and why. He did not pause 
either for Hermione's gasps of horror or for Ron's hasty questions; 
they could work out the finer details for themselves later.

`...So you see what this means?' Harry finished at a 
gallop. `Dumbledore won't be here tonight, so Malfoy's going to have 
another clear shot at whatever he's up to. *No, listen to me!*' he 
hissed angrily, as both Ron and Hermione showed every sign of 
interrupting. `I know it was Malfoy celebrating in the Room of 
Requirement. Here –` He shoved the Marauder's Map into Hermione's 
hand. `You've got to watch him and you've got to watch Snape, too. 
Use anyone else who you can rustle up from the DA. Hermione, those 
contact galleons will still work, right? Dumbledore says he's put 
extra protection in the school, but if Snape's involved, he'll know 
what Dumbledore's protection is, and how to avoid it – but he won't 
be expecting you lot to be on the watch, will he?'
</end quote>

Later, on page 577 (again, UK ed) we get this:

<quote>
`So if Ron was watching the Room of Requirement with Neville,' said 
Harry, turning to Hermione, `were you -?'

`Outside Snape's office, yes,' whispered Hermione, her eyes 
sparkling with tears, `with Luna. We hung around for ages outside it 
and nothing happened ... we didn't know what was going on upstairs, 
Ron had taken the Marauder's Map ... it was nearly midnight when 
Professor Flitwick came sprinting down into the dungeons. He was 
shouting about Death Eaters in the castle, I don't think he really 
registered that Luna and I were there at all, he just burst his way 
into Snape's office and we heard him saying that Snape had to go 
back with him and help and then we heard a loud thump and Snape came 
hurtling out of his room and he saw us and – and –`
</end quote>

So the *entire* reason Hermione and Luna were waiting around for 
hours and hours while nothing happened was to keep an eye on Snape. 
Finally, at the moment they learn that Harry was right, that there 
really is something big going, that there are in fact *Death Eaters* 
in the castle - they stop keeping an eye on Snape at precisely the 
moment it would have been most useful, and docilely follow his 
instructions.

So here's a follow-up question or two:

Do you think that if JKR had put Ron on guard duty outside Snape's 
office that *he* would have dumbly gone inside to help Flitwick? 
Similarly, do you think that if Hermione and Luna had been outside 
the Room of Requirement, they might have come up with a nifty trick 
to use against the Peruvian Instant Darkness Powder? Is it Harry's 
fault for letting them `work out the finer details for themselves 
later'? Do you think that what I am seeing as gullibility is simply 
there for plot reasons, to make Snape's entrance on the tower work 
retrospectively with everyone else's positions?

Dungrollin,
thanking everyone for the thoughtful answers to her questions.