The Irma/Eileen Theory

[va32h]

No: HPFGUIDX 164275

In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "lealess" <lealess at ...> wrote:
To recap the evidence as it is now being discussed:
 
> 1) The anagram, "I'm A Prince - Irma Pince" -- similar to "I Am 
Lord Voldemort," although JKR had to stretch for the latter one.

va32h here:

Is the anagram trick something JKR would want to repeat? She *does* 
repeat plot twists, elements, themes, etc. Enough time has passed 
since the post-CoS anagram frenzy that it would seem almost fresh 
again.


lealess:

> 2) The physical similarity, made more pronounced in HPB (hooked 
>nose, parchment-like skin).

va32h here:
 
From Snape's memories, as seen by Harry, it appears that Snape 
resembles his father, in terms of the hooked nose, at least. The 
mother in that memory is not described as having a hooked nose. I 
don't think her nose is described at all, actually. But it's the 
mention of the man's hooked nose that is supposed to be our clue that 
Snape is recalling his parents, isn't it?

lealess: 

3) The fact that a chapter featuring Pince often follows a 
> significant chapter for Snape, e.g., per PAM2002, ch. 11-12 of SS, 
> ch. 9-10 of COS, ch. 25-26 of GOF, ch. 28-29 of OOTP.  In all of 
> these chapters, Pince mirrors Snape's behavior.  The exception is 
>HBP.

va32h here:

I don't know what to make of that...I have read the thread on Leaky, 
and some of the quotes they use in that argument aren't entirely 
convincing to me. That Snape and Pince both said "Get out" or 
something similar -- that's a common enough phrase that it doesn't 
strike me as a purposeful link.  

lealess:

> 4) Pince's extra-effective (darkish?) library science 
skills.  "Madam 
> Pince has been known to add some unusual hexes and jinxes at times, 
> besides the usual collection of library book spells." Quidditch 
> Through the Ages, as quoted by Sylvanawood.
> 
> 5) Pince's remaining at Hogwarts over the summer (Sylvanawood: "If 
> you look at that funny little check-out page of Quidditch Through 
the Ages, you see that people borrow it from the library all through 
the year").  In fact, Pince never seems to leave the library, except 
for the funeral at the end of HBP -- and some speculate that may have 
> been Snape in disguise, not Pince, who may be unable to leave the 
> library.

va32h here:

I have trouble with both these arguments. Dumbledore's foreword in 
QTTA seemed to me to be entirely intended as humorous exaggeration. 
Both JKR and Dumbledore intended it to be humorous, if you know what 
I mean. Even if it were not, that two characters are similarly gifted 
in magic doesn't necessarily make them related. 

I also think it's something of a leap to say that because Pince is 
not seen to leave the library, it means that she cannot leave the 
library, and certainly a leap to say that her not leaving the library 
has anything to do with whose mother she is or isn't. 

It just seems backward reasoning. That Pince is not seen outside the 
library, in itself, means nothing other than JKR has not needed her 
outside the library for any plot purposes. If one already assumes 
that she is both Snape's mother *and* bound to the library via some 
magical pact with Dumbledore, then it does have meaning. But it's not 
proof, unless you already believe the theory. And not just the theory 
that she is Snape's mother, but also that Dumbledore is hiding her in 
the library. Why couldn't she be Snape's mother, and go home to 
Spinner's End each summer?

I have never even considered the idea that Pince was Snape in 
disguise before, so I will have to think about that for some time 
before addressing it!

lealess:

> 6) Random things: similar irritable behavior, a "pincers-spider" 
> correlation, books everywhere at Spinner's End.

va32h:

I definitely see the little similarities there...love of books, 
irritable temper, etc. I am not sure that is enough to trump some of 
my doubts though - if Irma is Eileen, why do all the Hogwart's 
teachers go along with this fiction? They would have known Eileen as 
a student. Well, of course, Dumbledore could have made them promise 
their silence or altered her appearance...but as soon as we are 
getting into supposition based on supposition, and that's where I 
start to waver.

lealess: 
 
> So, one theory is that, when Voldemort threatened Snape's family or 
> when Snape was backed into a corner, maybe when he was caught 
> listening to the Prophecy, Dumbledore offered to protect Snape's 
> mother at Hogwarts and Snape became a spy.  What is gained from 
this theory is that it parallels the offer made to Draco on the Tower 
>(at least in the United States), and perhaps explains part of the 
>reason Dumbledore trusts Snape and yet keeps the reason a secret.  
>The secret is one of tremendous magnitude, the revelation of which 
>could be seen as a betrayal, especially if revealed to someone with 
>a  wholly transparent mind like Harry Potter.  The theory also 
>humanizes Snape, showing that love of a kind can be a motivating 
>factor for him.

va32h here:

So Snape is doing all this for his mother, not for Lily? On the one 
hand, I prefer that interpretation, as I think mother-love is more 
prominent a theme in the books than romantic-love. 

And I definitely see parallels between Draco and Snape, in the sense 
that I think Snape once found himself in Draco's position. That is, 
thinking he loathed someone enough to kill them (or at least want 
them dead) but when faced with the prospect of doing (or seeing) it, 
suddenly found it not at all as satisfying as they had imagined, and 
in fact being scared to death. 

What really bothers me about this theory though, is that it makes 
Deathly Hallows just a bit too much All About Snape. 

Harry has horcruxes to find and destroy, an evil lord to thwart, much 
to uncover about his parents, resolution with the Dursleys, and a 
wedding to attend. 

Does Snape have a huge part to play in much of this? Absolutely. But 
if Snape has his own huge, heretofore completely unknown secret that 
must be revealed and resolved, and if it's to be dealt with in any 
more than a perfunctory manner, then either the book is going to be 
1000 pages long, or some part of Harry's story is going to be cut, 
and I can't see that happening. Well, I don't want to either, so 
there's my bias. 

Since there is already an existing motivation (which requires further 
explanation, but at least the basis is there) for Snape to go through 
this remorse/redemption process, why should JKR drop that, and 
introduce an entirely new motivation that will have to be explained 
from scratch? I'm asking rhetorically, not trying to be 
confrontational.

va32h, hoping DH is more about Harry, less about Snape