Possession Theory/Ethics/R/H Kids/Snape/Four Elements/TLWH/Faith Predictions

[Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)]

No: HPFGUIDX 171458

Kneasy invented Possession Theory, which I like very much. If I 
understand correctly, he began with Salazar Slytherin being a bad sort
with a yearning for immortality. Sally invented some way he could
leave his old or dying body and take over someone else's. He wanted to
always be a powerful wizard with Parselmouth ability, so he fixed up
the Chamber of Secrets so that only a powerfully magical Parselmouth
could enter, and then he talked the person into hosting him, much as
Voldemort talked to Quirrell, and then the person was probably
surprised to be crushed and suppressed and forgotten. Each possessed
person became a Dark Lord, eventually including Grindelwald, and then
Tom Riddle. Voldemort changed the pattern a bit with his seven soul
pieces and determination to re-create his own body rather than take
over someone's. But he did try to possess Harry at the OoP battle. 

Carol wrote in 
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/171270>:

<< I do think that Snape operates according to his own moral code, a 
set of strict, old-fashioned virtues of the sort rejected by Shelleyan
Romantics in the early eighteenth century and more recently by the
Beat generation of the 1950s and its postmodern offspring from the
1990s onward: Duty, Obedience, Respect for Authority, Loyalty
(Loyaultie me Lie!), perhaps others that I can't think of right now.>>

Duty -- it seems to me that anyone who takes Dumbledore's advice to
'do what is right rather than what is easy' believes in Duty, the 
duty to do what is right. The argument is, what IS it one's Duty to do
(or not do), also called what is right? There are those who say it is
always everyone's duty to tell the truth. So as soon as Voldemort
asked Peter where the Potters were hiding, it was Peter's Duty to tell
him the truth. There are those who say it is always the duty of
children to obey teachers, even Umbridge, so Harry and the Defense
Association were the bad guys and Draco and the Inquisitorial Squad
were the good guys. I take it you propose that Snape believes his
duties are Loyalty, Obedience, and Respect for Authority.

Loyalty and Obedience are the virtues of Bellatrix and of Barty
Junior, not of a double-agent. If Snape is Loyal to Dumbledore, he 
Betrayed Voldemort and his Death Eater friends. If Snape is Loyal to 
voldemort ... okay, then maybe Loyalty and Obedience are his virtues, too.

Obedience and Respect for Authority are the virtues of Marietta
tatting out the Defense Association (listies have argued that Marietta
THOUGHT she was doing right, but no one has argued that Rowling
intended her to be an example of right behavior), and of The Daily
Prophet's smear campaign against Harry at Minister Fudge's direction,
and of the law enforcement employees who put Stan Shunpike in Azkaban
without trial at Minister Scrimgeour's direction, and of Seamus's
mother's distrust of Dumbledore because The Daily Prophet said so.
Snape's Respect for Authority didn't extend to obeying Fudge and
Umbridge versus Dumbledore, even after Dumbledore had been fired.  

DDM!Snape and Pettigrew both betrayed their first allegiance and their
friends on that side. Dobby and Kreachur both betrayed their owners
because of their loyalty to their owners' enemies. Sirius and Percy
both turned against their parents and sibling(s). I believe that
Rowling deliberately created these parallels to show her belief that
it is not that Loyalty and Obedience are duties, but that Loyalty to
good is the duty.

(If Snape is LVM, then he didn't betray his first allegiance, but also
he is a bad guy; if Dobby has been a Malfoy secret agent all along, he
didn't betray his owner, but also he is a bad guy; if Percy is DD's
spy in the Ministry, then he is a good guy -- but even faking a
break-up with his family hurt their feelings.)

The Ministry of Magic keeps putting innocent people into Azkaban
without trial, sometimes even knowing that the person is innocent, 
and a trial like the one Fudge planned for Harry wouldn't be any
improvement. I believe Rowling presented the Ministry as such an
ethics-less institution to show her belief that Authority should be 
Respected only when it refrains from doing evil.

Cassie wrote in 
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/171298>:

<< Eddie <harryp at ...>:
> Wherein I predict Ron and Hermione will have at least 3 kids, 2 of
> which are red-headed twins.
Cassy:
And the third, the youngest one will be a boy named Harry! >>

Prediction: Ron and Hermione will name their children after loved or
respected ones lost in the struggle against Voldemort:
1. Harry Arthur (but they call him Artie because saying 'Harry' 
still hurts too much)
2. Minerva Molly
3. Twins: Albus Fred and Rubeus George
5. Neville Bilius
6. Cedric Charlie
7. Twins: Fabian Sirius and Gideon Remus
9. James Viktor
10. Arabella Ginevra
11. Twins: Lily Amelia and Luna Emmeline
13. Nymphadora Lavender (called Dora)
They run out of children before they run out of names.

I wrote in 
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/171432>:

<< I supposed that a Stag Patronus for Snape would have resulted 
from the tremendous relief he unwillingly felt when the stag rescued 
him from the werewolf. >>

In which case, probably his boggart would be a werewolf. How many 
wizards would guess that having a werewolf for a boggart represented 
fear of being humiliated rather than fear of being torn to bits? But 
those are a Patronus and Boggart that wouldn't be a clue to his 
allegiance.

Bart wrote in 
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/171434>:

<< the elemental associations of the 4 houses, where Griffyndor and 
Ravenclaw represented the masculine elements (even though Ravenclaw 
was female), and Hufflepuff and Slytherin represented the feminine 
elements (although Hufflepuff was female). It wasn't any special 
insight; it was that JKR knew about the 4 elements, but almost
certainly didn't know about the gender associations. >>

I prefer to believe that removing gender associations from the 
elements is an act of feminism rather than of ignorance. When I'm 
not warring against gender stereotyping and the assignment of gender 
to asexual beings (like hydrogen and oxygen), I sometimes point out 
that each element can be masculine and can be feminine.

When I'm called upon to invoke the Watchtowers at a non-private
Circle, I make a point of invoking a named God and a named Goddess 
as well as the generalized 'spirits of' each direction's element. 
When I haven't had time to plan, it's easiest for me to call back on
Classics: "My Lord Apollo, god of the clear light of intellect who 
plays music for the Muses to dance. My Lady Athena, goddess of
knowledge and skill. Spirits of east and of air, of morning and 
spring time, of intelligence and clarity, and the curious child in
every heart. We call upon you to ward our Eastern Watchtower'. 

Hestia and Hephaistios. Poseidon and Aphrodite. Demeter and Pan, or 
Pluto, or possibly Atlas.

<< She probably didn't even know that the 4 elements came from a time
when personalities were ascribed to substances, and the 4 elements
were also personality types >>

Surely she must have known, even if she didn't care about esotericism.
Just as a lover of *words*, she must have looked up the etymologies of
'choleric', 'melancholic', 'sanguine', and 'phlegmatic'.

Pippin wrote in 
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/171442>:

<< I think that will happen ala The Little White Horse, with both 
Gryffindor and Slytherin versions of the founding story revised and 
united thanks to discoveries made during the horcrux hunt. >>

Could it be done with a variant of Possession Theory? That Salazar 
started out a good guy until he became possessed by the Evil Entity. 
As a result of rescuing Godric from the Evil Entity. Then he locked 
himself up in the Chamber of Secrets to protect everyone from 
himself...

Neri wrote in 
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/171446>:

<< Faith's Predictions for "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows" 
(snip) 5. [Snape]'s not Voldemort's man either. >>

Faith is defined as believing whatever the surface of the narrative 
says. When there's a plot twist or revelation, she believes the new 
thing. So in PS/SS, Faith believed that Snape was trying to steal 
the Stone until Harry went through the door and found Quirrell. And 
in GoF, she believed Snape had not been a Death Eater from the time 
that Sirius said Dumbledore wouldn't have hired him if he were an 
ex-DE until the Pensieve tial scene.

Under this definition, Faith would have read the Spinner's End chapter
and believed what Snape told the sisters -- that he was loyal to Lord
Voldemort. And that belief would have been strengthened by Snape
killing Dumbledore. 

<< 30. The green potion from the cave didn't have any additional 
effects beside those stated by Dumbledore: weakening the drinker and 
trying to prevent him from taking the Horcrux by any way possible. >>

So what was that bad dream he was re-living?