Reason Dumbledore trusted Snape

va32h va32h at comcast.net
Sat Jul 14 15:42:42 UTC 2007


No: HPFGUIDX 171727

Julie:

I wouldn't say I'm convinced of the Irma Pince (I'm a  Prince)=Eileen 
Prince theory. But I do think it's the likeliest of the several 
anagram  theories I've heard. 

va32h:

Isn't it just as likely that *none* of the anagram theories are true? 
Just because one character changed his name with an anagram doesn't 
mean that any other character would do so. 

Julie:

It also seems odd for JKR to write  into the books two 
last names so close in sound/spelling, Pince and Prince. (We know  
she had Prince picked out at or near the beginning too, as CoS was 
almost  called HBP). Irma Pince's name doesn't have any deeper 
meaning that I've heard of, like many  other
names in the series (Remus, Rubeus/Albus/Black, Malfoy,  Voldemort, 
star and constellation names within the Black/Malfoy families, etc,  
etc). 

va32h:

I think "Pince" calls to mind the word "pincers" which is what 
spiders have, which evokes an image of Madam Pince scuttling around 
the library snatching at books (which is in fact, exactly what she 
does). As for re-using names - Mark Evans anyone? She also has a 
fondness for characters will alliteraive "P" names. Piers Polkiss, 
Pansy Parkinson, Parvati and Padma Patil. Or names that sound alike. 
Riddle, Diggle, Figg. Finch-Fletchley, Fletcher, Filch. 

Aside from the Patil twins, none of the characters with similar names 
have any particular relation to each other. 

Julie:
with no logical or canon argument  against it(as there is for the 
other two anagrams above), and some mild logical support for it
(including DD's "we can hide you where you'll never be found" 
argument to  Draco quite possibly referencing previous experience 
with  exactly that scenario), it seems a theory with a very solid 
chance of being  correct.


va32h:

Aside from the issue of whether we feel there *must* be one other 
anagram lurking out there (I don't), my biggest canon argument for it 
is that JKR just isn't that subtle. 

Look at the clues we got for Aberforth Dumbledore. Dumbledore 
mentions he has a brother with an affinity for goats. He also 
mentions that is friendly with the staff at the Hog's Head, and we 
know that Albus has, at least once, conducted business at the Hog's 
Head. The Hog's Head smells faintly of goats. The description of 
Aberforth Dumbledore from the original Order photo is similar to that 
of the Hog's Head barman. Harry recognizes the Hog's Head barman at 
Dumbledore's funeral. JKR says in an interview that Dumbleodore's 
family is a profitable line of inquiry. 

Look at the RAB/Regulus clues. Regulus is name-dropped three times in 
Half Blood Prince, and never on an occasion when his name needed to 
be used (since Sirius has no other brother, and Harry already knew 
Regulus' name, there is no need to specify "Sirius' brother Regulus')
We know that Regulus was a Death Eater who turned against Voldemort 
and was killed for it, and the note from RAB is clearly from a Death 
Eater ('to the Dark Lord') who intends to turn against Voldemort ('I 
intend to destroy it') and knows he will be killed for it ('I will be 
dead before you read this'). The horcrux that was stolen by RAB is a 
locket, which is similar in description to a locket found in the 
Black home. JKR says in an interview that Regulus is "a fine guess". 

So looking at JKR's known style of clue-dropping, if Irma Pince = 
Eileen Prince, the logical expectation is that we would have clues 
like - a character mentioning how long Irma has worked at Hogwarts 
(i.e. exactly as long as Snape has been spying for the Order), or 
that Snape often visits (or specifically avoids) the library. Or 
Eileen's description somehow evoking Irma (in fact, Irma is described 
as having a hooked nose like Snape, while we learn from Snape's 
memories is a trait he inherited from some male in his family, and 
not his mother). Or JKR referencing Snape's family in an interview. 

Now the other type of mystery Jo uses is as with the 
Scabbers/Pettigew, Fake!Moody plot twists. They are purposely 
misleading "Gotcha!" twists. We, the reader, are told that Pettigrew 
and Crouch Jr. are dead. We are given this information by characters 
we have no reason to believe are lying. The characters are as 
surprised by the revelation as we readers are. And most importantly, 
the mysteries of Pettigrew and Crouch Jr. are both brought up and 
resolved within the same book. 

If Pince/Prince were to be a similar Gotcha! moment, then the logical 
expectation would be that we are specifically told Eileen is dead, 
that other characters speak of their belief that she is dead, and 
that the name Eileen Prince is introduced in the same book in which 
she is revealed to be Irma Pince. 

The biggest predictor of future behavior is past behavior. We have 
six books in which to analyze JKR's style of clue-revealing and plot 
twisting. I don't think the Prince/Pince theory follows any of those 
established patterns. It is certainly possible that JKR could be 
using an entirely different style of writing/hinting just for this 
particular plot twist, but I don't think it is probable. 

va32h





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