Re: Rowling’s Debunking of the Marauders

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 172797

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "leslie41" <leslie41 at ...> wrote:
<SNIP>
  Those that admire the Marauders and loathe Snape, and 
> relish in Snape's demise, are certainly entitled to do so, but I 
> think that, unfortunately, they are clearly misinterpreting the 
> books, and also missing the point.  

Alla:

What's one has to do with another, I wonder? I admire Marauders, 
while seeing that they are flawed characters for very different 
reasons that I loathe Snape. It is not Marauders OR Snape for me, 
really.


leslie41:
<SNIP> 
But Lily did fall in love with him, and marry him, and thus 
> by that virtue alone I am sure that he changed and there was a 
great 
> deal of value in him, even before he became a member of the Order. 
To 
> my mind, considering the way Rowling has defined Lily as a 
character, 
> her affection and respect for James proves alone that he is worthy, 
> much as (in my mind) Dumbledore's unwavering trust for Snape was 
the 
> best evidence that he was not a traitor.  
> Sirius is more difficult.  Harry certainly never stops loving him 
or 
> admiring him.  But, er
his personality is also debunked beginning 
in 
> PoA  Prank, anyone? Using a friend to lure an enemy into his 
possible 
> death is...er...not very nice, no matter how curious your enemy is 
> about your doings. And as long as he lives, he is never shown to 
> repent of that, ever. He does go to Azkaban for the crime of 
another, 
> but then he escapes and pretty much scares the snot out of everyone 
> (mostly kids, btw) before he's found in the Shrieking Shack. But 
even 
> after that, though Sirius most obviously loves Harry and Harry does 
> likewise, we are still shown the deeply limiting aspects of Sirius' 
> personality.  A case in point there is Kreacher. <SNIP>  

Alla:

So, if Lily's affection for James is the proof for you that he was 
worthy, is Lily's loving letter to Sirius proof to you that he was 
worthy as well?

Is the fact that she is not taking prank seriously proof that Snape 
made much bigger deal of it that it maybe really was?

Oh, and of course Sirius had limiting aspects of his personality. 




leslie41:
> I won't go into much further detail trying to defend Snape, as I've 
> already done that here, and I personally think the truth about 
Snape 
> is self-evident to anyone who isn't deluding themselves.  DH is 
out, 
> folks, and trying to twist Snape into a bad guy, or undermine his 
> heroism, in the end will not wash with the text. 
<SNIP>


Alla:

Nobody is trying to twist Snape into **evil** guy anymore, if by evil 
we meant loyalty to Voldemort. I would love to, but how can I?

But Snape who is loyal to Dumbledore did what he did out of his love 
or obsession for Lily. That I read differently from you. I think it 
was obsession, not love, or at least for the most part.


Leslie41:
 Harry, who 
> considered him his greatest enemy save Voldemort, publicly 
vindicates 
> him and names his child after him.  What further proof is needed?  
> Those that would suggest that Harry named him that because 
> he's "forgiving" and "Christlike" forget that Ginny (no shrinking 
> violet) is the child's mother.  She had some say as well, no 
doubt.  
> Were Snape not to her mind every bit as worthy as Harry believes he 
> is, she would not have allowed her child to be named Albus 
Severus.  
> If there were any doubt at all in the Wizarding world about Snape's 
> heroism, Harry would not have given Albus Severus the name, any 
more 
> than one of us would name a child Osama.
><SNIP>


Alla:

Harry calls him a bravest person he ever knew, so he was brave, who 
can doubt that now?

But if Harry thinks he loved his mother, I can **certainly** disagree 
with that interpretation, or at least think that this "love" was much 
more ambiguous that Harry, noble soul, chose to believe.

As a reader I interpret it differently than Harry. Snape's bravery is 
being shown to me in new canon, so I do not see what is the relevance 
that Ginny would have objected if she doubted his bravery.

I do not doubt his bravery, I doubt his motivations for it.



> Dana
> <SNIP of the whole post>
> And although not canon I'm pretty 
> sure that James second name is Sirius and Teddy already carried 
Remus 
> as a second name. Also I did not see Snape showing up in the scene 
> where Harry calls upon his loved ones to help him go through with 
his 
> sacrifice, I did see Sirius and Lupin.
>

Alla:

Agreed and I am sure people will ask her about that in chat or she 
will clarify that in encyclopedia. She did cried over that scene 
after all :)