Victory for TEWWW EWWW

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 173013

colebiancardi:
> > yep, I saw that interview and thought, wow oh wow.  So, what is 
> > the definition of a hero, I wonder? 

Nora:
> I would suspect that it has something to do with doing the right 
> thing for the right reason.  I've always thought that intention 
> plays a major role in JKR's worldview, as magic seems to respond to 
> it, among other things.  Take Neville standing up to his friends 
> and showing courage for the right reason.
> 
> The way that Snape's love for Lily is presented, it's on an
> uncomfortable line.  It motivates him to a lot of risks, but it
> doesn't make him a better person in areas such as treating students
> well, etc.  It's more along the lines of obsession than love.


SSSusan:
That reference to Neville reminds me of another reason that I feel it 
was 'appropriate' [ha! how dare I say what's 'appropriate' for 
Herself to bring up? hee!] to bring up that Snape was not a hero even 
while he was very brave.

Let me explain what I mean.

We all remember the famous moment of Neville standing up to his 
friends, which got him praise & reward from DD.  It was a very brave 
thing to do, to stand up to his friends.  And Neville, I think, 
developed along those lines even more.

What about Snape?  What about what we saw in his pensieve memories, 
when Lily confronted him about him joining in with his 'little Death 
Eater friends'?  He had once told her that her Muggleborn status did 
not matter, he obviously craved her affections & cherished their 
relationship, but in the end, he lacked the bravery to stand up to 
his friends and tell them that they were wrong.

He *turned* brave later, making the choice of honoring Lily's memory 
by playing the dangerous role of double-agent, by protecting a boy he 
couldn't love or even like, and by *showing* all of this to Harry.  
THAT was brave, and I think that's what Harry recognized and what JKR 
acknowledged today.  

But he wasn't able to do it back when his earlier decision faced him 
(nor was Dumbledore in his earlier life!), so I do give him credit 
for his later bravery.  But the fact that he changed sides only for 
Lily's sake, not for ideological reasons, not for James' or Harry's 
sake... only for Lily's... I guess that's what prevents me from 
thinking of him as a hero.


Colebiancardi?
> > And basically, is JKR stating that placing Snape in Slytherin 
> > doomed and sealed his fate as a bad person with no redeeming 
> > qualities whatsoever, if he didn't *love* Lily?

Nora: 
> I didn't get the feeling that it was specifically his placement in
> Slytherin House that did it.

SSSusan:
Me, either.  Again, I refer back to Neville.  He was placed in 
Gryffindor but he didn't *automatically* go along with his Gryffindor 
friends.  He evidenced the Gryffindor trait of bravery in standing up 
to his friends and *not* going along with him.  Snape could have done 
the same thing and not gone along with his Slytherin friends when 
faced with the choice of losing Lily's respect & friendship forever.  
He did not.  I see that as a personal choice, not as some kind 
of 'automatic' coming from his placement in Slytherin.  

I guess I see it that his love for Lily wasn't *enough.*  Back when 
he was a student at Hogwarts AND later after he'd come back to DD.  
His love for Lily got him to the point of taking many right actions, 
but it didn't take him to a lot of true growth & change internally, 
which is what Nora was saying as well, I believe.  

And (I could be missing something here -- feel free to point that 
out!) I'm not seeing that as connected to his being placed in 
Slytherin, to his having been doomed by that placement.


Nora:
> I think a good portion of Snape's story IS that he was stunted and
> unable to let go, and he was kept running by his own personal
> interests and motivations.  Being as the series is not "Severus 
> Snape and the...", we don't get the internal view into what's going 
> on in his head throughout, but his end story is rather tragic, 
> although he is a profound force for the victory over Voldemort.


SSSusan:
Absolutely!  As I was talking things over with my 11-year-old 
daughter, I told her that Snape's story is a profoundly sad one in my 
view.  He was socially & emotionally stunted.  As I told her, many 
people in life suffer heartbreak in love, but most of them find a way 
to move on.  Snape was pathetically damaged socially (and I'm not 
BLAMING him for that, I'm just saying).  He could not move on.

Siriusly Snapey Susan